The need for Change

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Re: The need for Change

Post by Vulpine on Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:15 pm
([msg=60002]see Re: The need for Change[/msg])

mShred wrote:This, I like. But how would we go about making it? I'm down for whatever help is needed. We could just build it off of a distro if that's easier.


That's the "easier than it sounds" part. A list of vulnerabilities and attacks would have to be picked out. Nothing complex at first. Just simple shit to illustrate common fuck-ups and security over-sites. A distro could be setup as a whatever-server with open ports or vulnerable services. Like RTB, but the box is in your home or on your computer.
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Re: The need for Change

Post by mShred on Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:19 pm
([msg=60003]see Re: The need for Change[/msg])

Vulpine wrote:That's the "easier than it sounds" part. A list of vulnerabilities and attacks would have to be picked out. Nothing complex at first. Just simple shit to illustrate common fuck-ups and security over-sites. A distro could be setup as a whatever-server with open ports or vulnerable services. Like RTB, but the box is in your home or on your computer.

I feel like this could be a pretty good community project. We could set it up with different types of vulnerabilities. Open ports, vulnerable apache server that you could access through localhost, outdated services, etc.
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Re: The need for Change

Post by Vulpine on Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:40 pm
([msg=60004]see Re: The need for Change[/msg])

mShred wrote:I feel like this could be a pretty good community project. We could set it up with different types of vulnerabilities. Open ports, vulnerable apache server that you could access through localhost, outdated services, etc.


Pretty much. Organizing it would be a pain in the ass, though. Think more on this, we must.
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Re: The need for Change

Post by Gatito on Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:37 pm
([msg=60005]see Re: The need for Change[/msg])

Let's see now....

    Goatboy
    Fashizzlepop
    ♦ Sanddbox

.......right.

@ mShred & Vulpine
For any kind of project (even more for a complex one) there's need for someone to be in charge. Someone has to be in control of things, when conflicting ideas arise he has to decide what to take and what to give, he has to help members, see the big picture, give duties, report & finally 'advertise' the cause. Without such, a project can't be made by a community as a whole.

The HTS book started the wrong way if you ask me. What's the point of locking emails and select a few people to have access? That's not community work, I don't discourage a control system but not such a limiting one. And Google docs wasn't the best place for such a job, IMHO.

My other point is that most of us find it hard to contribute to the main project, and yet we dream of subprojects. Who would want to contribute to something that looks half dead from the beginning?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sanddbox being the only mod left I think we need temporally ones to fill in. I vote for mShred,Vulpine & Centip3de. They have been here for some time and have a presence on the forums and are in my opinion legitimate candidates to become forum mods. I don't see anything wrong with that. Oh and think it this way you guys, if you can't menage being a mod for a low activity site like HTS is now then you better forget about big bad projects right away. But of course no pressure :roll:
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Re: The need for Change

Post by Vulpine on Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:20 pm
([msg=60008]see Re: The need for Change[/msg])

Gatito wrote:@ mShred & Vulpine
For any kind of project (even more for a complex one) there's need for someone to be in charge. Someone has to be in control of things, when conflicting ideas arise he has to decide what to take and what to give, he has to help members, see the big picture, give duties, report & finally 'advertise' the cause. Without such, a project can't be made by a community as a whole.


Too many people working on it would be too cumbersome, but I think a small group ( <= 5) could pull it off without much need for arbitration from a central figure. A project like that would also leave a lot of room for people to incorporate their own ideas without stepping on any toes. Then again, maybe I'm just being idealistic...


Gatito wrote:The HTS book started the wrong way if you ask me. What's the point of locking emails and select a few people to have access? That's not community work, I don't discourage a control system but not such a limiting one. And Google docs wasn't the best place for such a job, IMHO.


I haven't messed with G-Docs, but does it not have any features for multiple people to collaborate on a single document? Would something like GitHub work better?


Gatito wrote:My other point is that most of us find it hard to contribute to the main project, and yet we dream of subprojects. Who would want to contribute to something that looks half dead from the beginning?


Precisely why I think the main objective should be the recode, and why I don't like the thought of bugging Bren or Kage any more than is absolutely necessary.


Gatito wrote:Sanddbox being the only mod left I think we need temporally ones to fill in. I vote for mShred,Vulpine & Centip3de. They have been here for some time and have a presence on the forums and are in my opinion legitimate candidates to become forum mods. I don't see anything wrong with that. Oh and think it this way you guys, if you can't menage being a mod for a low activity site like HTS is now then you better forget about big bad projects right away. But of course no pressure :roll:


I think there are far more knowledgeable people than myself that would be far more deserving. I's justa nub. Your vote of confidence is appreciated, though.
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Re: The need for Change

Post by Phantom Wolf on Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:02 pm
([msg=60012]see Re: The need for Change[/msg])

No comments on my idea of a rep system? I probably should've made a separate thread for that, but I thought it went along with what we were discussing here.
Gatito wrote:Sanddbox being the only mod left I think we need temporally ones to fill in. I vote for mShred,Vulpine & Centip3de. They have been here for some time and have a presence on the forums and are in my opinion legitimate candidates to become forum mods. I don't see anything wrong with that. Oh and think it this way you guys, if you can't menage being a mod for a low activity site like HTS is now then you better forget about big bad projects right away. But of course no pressure :roll:

I don't know who I would want to make a mod, but why not make said changes permanent? Even if said mod isn't very active, it couldn't hurt.
Vulpine wrote:I think there are far more knowledgeable people than myself that would be far more deserving. I's justa nub. Your vote of confidence is appreciated, though.

The only thing that should disqualify you as a mod is over-use of the banhammer
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Re: The need for Change

Post by Gatito on Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:27 pm
([msg=60016]see Re: The need for Change[/msg])

Vulpine wrote:Too many people working on it would be too cumbersome, but I think a small group ( <= 5) could pull it off without much need for arbitration from a central figure. A project like that would also leave a lot of room for people to incorporate their own ideas without stepping on any toes. Then again, maybe I'm just being idealistic...


To be honest my issue here is not really about a project itself. Not so long ago there was a debate about HTS should be more transparent and Kage included an update stream on the main site, Bren made a lame devblog (wonder if it's still there) the recode went open source. All in all we felt better, more knowledgeable of what's happening around us and had (we still have) a chance to hack the code. I'm sure you agree with me on this.

I don't want subprojects making the same mistake. We long for activity yet we exclude people from taking part. I agree that between a few number of people there is no need for leadership but what happens if more people want to join a cause. You can't tell them there is no room for them. Perhaps they are not very skilled, and maybe they screw up a bit here and there, but I can guarantee you from experience that I learned a lot by making one mistake after another, by fixing one thing I broke 3 others, when the simplest solution would have been just editing one line, but I learned from that, and isn't that what HTS is all about? And what is a better learning experience than doing it yourself? Nothin.

The reason why I didn't like Cent's implementation is because of it's closed nature. If i wanted to take part in it I would probably sent him a message but I doubt someone new who even has something to offer would have had the courage to bother considering he knows about this. To be fair I don't much about Google Docs but if we are gonna use some kind of collaborative platform it should be something like the recode which has two parts: A testing/debugging/do-what-you-want-with-it version and the main product. Edits of course should be managed and verified and I believe I don't have to go on, you get the idea. It should allow everybody to try it without fear, well fear maybe be a exaggeration.

I didn't mention it earlier Vulpine but your HTSliveCD is very original and interesting but requires a lot more work than a HTS book. I can't see how more participants make working on it cumbersome as you put it. What I mean is that you should be happy that so many people share your idea and want to help you making it happen. They will learn something by doing it and you have your project a step further. And if they don't make it no problem you didn't lost anything, but there has been activity. You help HTS and HTS helps you. Win-Win situation here.

Vulpine wrote:I think there are far more knowledgeable people than myself that would be far more deserving.

Care to share ?

Phantom Wolf wrote:No comments on my idea of a rep system? I probably should've made a separate thread for that, but I thought it went along with what we were discussing here.

I have already expressed my opinion on a point system! The question is where is everybody else in this topic? Where is activity guys?

Phantom Wolf wrote:I don't know who I would want to make a mod, but why not make said changes permanent? Even if said mod isn't very active, it couldn't hurt.

You mean like "your MOD, do your job, NOW", that would be forced and there's no point in it if anybody doesn't want to.

Phantom Wolf wrote:The only thing that should disqualify you as a mod is over-use of the banhammer

All I have to say is after you hang out in here for a while you know how things roll, what we like and what not. The banhammer echoes the mind and heart of the community. Kinda romantic don't you think?
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Re: The need for Change

Post by Phantom Wolf on Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:56 pm
([msg=60017]see Re: The need for Change[/msg])

Gatito wrote:I have already expressed my opinion on a point system! The question is where is everybody else in this topic? Where is activity guys?

Not a point system, a rep system. Users would vote each other up/down. Points gained through missions would operate independently, this would keep people from Googling the answers and becoming mods.

Gatito wrote:You mean like "your MOD, do your job, NOW", that would be forced and there's no point in it if anybody doesn't want to.

No, of course not. You weren't thinking of forcing someone to become a temporary mod, were you? What I'm saying is if someone would volunteer to become a mod temporarily, why can't we just let them have those permissions permanently?

Gatito wrote:All I have to say is after you hang out in here for a while you know how things roll, what we like and what not. The banhammer echoes the mind and heart of the community. Kinda romantic don't you think?

I think you need a girlfriend. No, seriously, I love to see the banhammer used, but only when it's necessary. I don't like seeing users perma-banned without good reason.
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Re: The need for Change

Post by LoGiCaL__ on Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:14 pm
([msg=60018]see Re: The need for Change[/msg])

by Gatito on Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:27 pm
Edits of course should be managed and verified and I believe I don't have to go on, you get the idea. It should allow everybody to try it without fear, well fear maybe be a exaggeration.


Well theoretically it would be a good idea. I mean people want to help out it seems like anyway then can, either mod or dev. However, it was said earlier that some people just don't have the know how. Well everyone is at a different skill level. I'm sure there are some people more than capable but just think they aren't, or are just thinking to hell with it. Without requirements set in stone, how will anyone ever know if they do have what it takes to apply? For instance, php...well there is php and oo/php. How many years coding and skill level required would be a good start. After that is posted maybe more people would apply for the position.

I have read the thread where it explains, well if you don't have 250+ posts don't even bother applying. Well, at this point the forum isn't even that active, and the people who are +250 posts either have applied or are not interested. Don't get me wrong this is open for debate/criticism, but just to get the ball rolling and get more people in the community active, I think this would be a good place to start.
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Re: The need for Change

Post by mShred on Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:24 am
([msg=60019]see Re: The need for Change[/msg])

For the LiveCD idea, I think we could combine both ideas. There could be a dedicated team for the main project. Said team would release the starting/beta versions while anyone else could look at the project, make adjustments and send them into the original team who would take everything into consideration. That way it's completely open, but not to the point where anyone can mess it up. Kinda like the recode for HTS but without all the scare of it.
For the mod ideas, it's all up to Kage and the rest of the staff who becomes mods and who doesn't. They're the ones who can actually determine whether said person can or will contribute to HackThisSite.
The rep system, it seems like a lot of us would get bad reps by the one posters that come in an ask for whatever. Unless we had a certain post of rep count to be able to vote.
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