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Re: is there a god?

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:39 am
by Finarfin Palantir
Well the easiest way for me to state this one:

Do you have a brain?
Can you feel your brain?
Has your brain ever spoken to you?
Have you ever even seen your brain?

On this, the same logic that I've heard a countless number of times for why God does not exist, the same argument is true for your brain, until you take the right test.

Do you really need to take a test before you believe that you have a brain?

I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. I've seen too much religion in the eyes of murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is the right action and good intentions and what you decide to do every day will make you a good man...or not.

Re: is there a god?

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:36 am
by Possumdude0
Do you really need to take a test before you believe that you have a brain?


Some philosophies (I've forgotten the name at the moment) postulate that there is nothing other than the self. How can you prove that what your senses show you is real, and that everything isn't just something made up by your own subconscious?

By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. I've seen too much religion in the eyes of murderers.


That sounds eerily like judging religion by it's followers, regardless of whether or not they are actually doing as their religion says they should.

Re: is there a god?

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:45 am
by Finarfin Palantir
Possumdude0 wrote:
Do you really need to take a test before you believe that you have a brain?


Some philosophies (I've forgotten the name at the moment) postulate that there is nothing other than the self. How can you prove that what your senses show you is real, and that everything isn't just something made up by your own subconscious?

By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. I've seen too much religion in the eyes of murderers.


That sounds eerily like judging religion by it's followers, regardless of whether or not they are actually doing as their religion says they should.


Ah yes, indeed it does, but do remember the preceeding text, "I put no stock in religion"
The next phrase as you so clearly pointed out, describes the followers and not the religion, one of my favourite sayings on the matter is simply "Your argument is not against my God, but against humanity"

I believe this to be true for all religions, not just Christianity. Once again, that is simply my opinion on the matter, I might die someday and meet this short dude/chick with a white beard/*some compliment about a female which I won't explicilty mention to prevent from insulting anyone* who simply looks at me and says "O really?" But that is not what I believe

Re: is there a god?

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:53 am
by Possumdude0
I believe this to be true for all religions, not just Christianity.


Of course it's true for all religions. Don't judge any religion on the basis of flawed practitioners of that religion. That's why I don't hate Islam because a few Islamic people decided to be terrorists.

I might die someday and meet this short dude/chick with a white beard/*some compliment about a female which I won't explicilty mention to prevent from insulting anyone* who simply looks at me and says "O really?"


I would be quite surprised if I were confronted by a dude with a white beard (or a chick with unmentionable anatomic qualities) when I die. But I get your meaning.

But that is not what I believe


What exactly do you believe? You seem to not follow any of the major monotheistic religions, and yet your earlier statements:

Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is the right action and good intentions and what you decide to do every day will make you a good man...or not.


seem to imply a monotheistic view.

Re: is there a god?

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:28 am
by Finarfin Palantir
Very good obeservation, I consider myself a Christian, although the church might not agree with my opinion.

Re: is there a god?

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:38 am
by Possumdude0
Very good obeservation, I consider myself a Christian, although the church might not agree with my opinion.


Churches in the past fully supported crusades and inquisitions. As long as you follow the Bible, you're a Christian.

What God desires is the right action and good intentions and what you decide to do every day will make you a good man...or not.


This quote makes me ask, do you think that good actions alone will get you into heaven?

Re: is there a god?

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:53 am
by Finarfin Palantir
I believe that I have a merciful God, I don't think that all people need to pass the same criteria or test before they are granted entry into heaven.

If a small child dies without truly believing in Jesus Christ would my God not spare him? If a 80 year old man who's mind has been tainted by disease forgets God, would God forget about him?

I believe that each person is taken and weighed individually, we all have different circumstances, we have all different stuggles, different oppurtunities.

Atleast once again, this is my opinion on the subject.

Re: is there a god?

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 12:32 pm
by Spectre557
Possumdude0 wrote:
Do you really need to take a test before you believe that you have a brain?

Some philosophies (I've forgotten the name at the moment) postulate that there is nothing other than the self. How can you prove that what your senses show you is real, and that everything isn't just something made up by your own subconscious?

cogito ergo sum.

Possumdude0 wrote:
By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. I've seen too much religion in the eyes of murderers.

That sounds eerily like judging religion by it's followers, regardless of whether or not they are actually doing as their religion says they should.

A religion IS its followers. If someone claimed justification for genocide from the Bible (which is perfectly possible), then the Church would distance themself from that person because they aren't playing by the rules. But technically, using the Bible as the ultimate means of guidance, he is more a Christian than they are.

People can interpret the basis of a religion however they like, so at the core, different denominations and interpretations of one religion are essentially the same thing.

Finarfin Palantir wrote:If a small child dies without truly believing in Jesus Christ would my God not spare him? If a 80 year old man who's mind has been tainted by disease forgets God, would God forget about him?

What about somone who genuinely believes that God gave him a mind in order that he might think for himself rather than be a mindless sheep?

And how do you explain that sinners will be judged harshly given that God has controlled (and already planned) everything they've done? God can't be all-powerful and yet people still have free will; the two are completely incompatible. So which is it?

Re: is there a god?

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:17 pm
by Heath Winchester
Possumdude0 wrote:
Very good obeservation, I consider myself a Christian, although the church might not agree with my opinion.


Churches in the past fully supported crusades and inquisitions. As long as you follow the Bible, you're a Christian.

What God desires is the right action and good intentions and what you decide to do every day will make you a good man...or not.


This quote makes me ask, do you think that good actions alone will get you into heaven?


Isn't that rather contradicting? From what I know about the Christian religion (and I know a fair amount) you have to "accept" Jesus/God/The Holy freaking "ghost" into your metaphorical "heart." Therefore simply following the Bible will not get you into heaven. So you can't say that Bible will get you there and then say Good deeds won't. It doesn't make sense. Or were you just asking hypothetically? Sorry if I assumed too much.

What about somone who genuinely believes that God gave him a mind in order that he might think for himself rather than be a mindless sheep?


This is one of the exact questions I ask. If god created me, gave me brain, gave me intelligence, what does he expect me to with it? If we were created we were created to figure things out. Hell, the Bible says we were created in his image and that means that he wanted us to be smart and he wanted us to learn. If we do all we can and our brains lead us to conclude that God isn't real, how the hell can he blame us for that? It doesn't make sense.

Re: is there a god?

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:08 pm
by almightybob
Heath Winchester wrote: If we do all we can and our brains lead us to conclude that God isn't real, how the hell can he blame us for that? It doesn't make sense.


If anything, it's his own damn fault for carefully planting dinosaur fossils each filled with the appropriate ratios of radioisotopes, for carefully overlapping geological strata in a way that looks like it takes millions of years, for designing all the creatures of the earth to fit neatly into Linnaean classification, for making evolution observable in a lab, for making abiogenesis observable in a lab, for never ever answering impossible prayers, and for only answering possible prayers at exactly the rate you would expect if he wasn't there at all.

He certainly went out of his way to make it look like he did sweet F.A.