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Re: Suicide......your thoughts

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:23 pm
by Steambyte
Etelerix wrote:A typical answer.....

But what if you've been at the lowest point of your life for so long that you've forgotten how happiness felt?

What if you've become so sick that you don't want things to get better?

What if the only thing you want is death, can anyone really talk you out of it?

I understand that in some cases, burn victims for example(my mom is a nurse) don't want to live anymore because they are in excruciating pain getting their wraps changed 3 times a day. They can't eat by themselfs , can't walk by themselfs, can't sleep, they can't function and 90% of the time they can't look in a mirror because they are so horrably disfigured. Then maybe i would consider an assited suicide to relieve them of their pain. How ever here are 3 cases of people who came out of the dark and over came that depression.
Each of them managed to find a new purpose in life despite their problems.Which just gos to show you that you CAN get better! It's a matter of perspective, not giving up and making the most of what you have.

In regards to legality i think suicide should not be considered criminal nor should it be condoned. You can't really punish some one for not wanting to live but fact is every one has to deal with their existense and using suicide to avoid ones problems and responsability is cowardice.

Re: Suicide......your thoughts

PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:20 pm
by Defective Flamesuit
Let me start off by saying that I have only read some of the posts in this thread and not all, so if I repeat what anyone said I apologize. Having said that, I think it is important to note the difference between suicide and euthanasia. I personally support euthanasia and think that it is a reasonable concept to endorse. Why make someone live for two more months when you know they're going to die, and they live in constant pain? But I am firmly against suicide as a response to depression.

goatboy wrote:Think about all of those people who have botched suicide. Shot themselves in the face and lived. Poisoned themselves and had massive internal damage, leading to hospitalization. Hung themselves and lived on with a permanent necklace. Slitting wrists, necks, femoral arteries, only to pass out and wind up in a mental ward. All this could be avoided with a simple kit.

Of course, this will never happen. We are all so selfish that we want to hang on to our loved ones as long as possible, no matter what they want for themselves. That is human nature. It cannot be helped. I have come to accept that. However if I or a loved one should ever be in a position where we are ready to die, I would want it to be quick, quiet, and without pain. Suicide is a beautiful thing.

I believe your argument to be essentially flawed, goatboy. Suicide is not the answer for severe depression. Scrolling through the posts on this board alone (an extremely small, specific sample size, might I add), I see people who claim to have considered suicide at some point in their lives. I don't think who posted here is currently contemplating suicide, however.

Now, imagine we lived in a world like you describe, where suicide "kits" are available publicly. Let us assume that these kits of yours make suicide extremely easy, quick, and painless. If suicide was this easy and instantly accessible, then every person who posted here saying they considered suicide before might be dead. It would reduce suicide to being susceptible to "impulse" actions. Have you ever done something you later regret? I certainly have, and most likely I wasn't thinking clearly at the time. Unfortunately, you don't get the opportunity to regret suicide.

I know some people who tried to kill themselves but only half-heartedly, and they are alive and happy today that they did not commit suicide when they almost did. If suicide kits became mainstream and made suicide easy, painless, and hassle-free, many more people would kill themselves than the number that currently do, just because of that one point in there life where they thought they couldn't handle it anymore. Many people who contemplate suicide and ultimately don't kill themselves go on to lead happy, productive lives. If suicide amounted to a simple press of a button or some equivalent, many needless deaths would ensue.

I am interested to hear your response.

Re: Suicide......your thoughts

PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:40 pm
by Goatboy
Well when you take my quote out of context, of course it appears that way. Look at the paragraph right above it:

Goatboy wrote:Now in the case of perfectly healthy - albeit depressed - people, clinics should offer a "suicide kit" containing those materials needed for an easy, painless way to die. There would be a set waiting period, during which the person is encouraged/required (Again, still thinking about this) to seek counseling, medical assistance, and talk to their friends and family. After that period, the person will be able to end his/her life without pain.

I hardly consider that a "simple" solution. A simple solution would be putting a loaded gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger. If you're going to quote people, don't quote them without context.

My original purpose was not to make suicide any easier. It's pretty damn easy as it is. What makes people fail is that they are afraid of the pain. A bullet could miss a killzone, a rope could snap, and a poison could merely paralyze. A kit would be much "safer" in this way. It would be more akin to a lethal injection; No pain, no uncertainty, and no bloody mess for your loved ones to come home to.

As for your point about more people committing suicide: I say let them do it. As I said before, if you can't control your own life, what can you control? Some people have legitimate reasons to want to die. The biggest misconception about suicide is that it is always a split-second, impulsive decision without any prior thought or counsel. What if someone were sentenced to life in prison? That person may want to kill him/herself after a few months.

I'd suggest watching Children of Men. The movie itself is great, but that's beside the point. There's a scene where such a suicide kit is used, and it beautifully illustrates my point.

Re: Suicide......your thoughts

PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:54 pm
by Defective Flamesuit
I apologize for taking your quote out of context; I was skimming through replies and when I read that part of your post I was compelled to response. In skimming I did indeed miss your part on a waiting period, but that proposal brings up a whole new issue (although it does answer my original question).

If a waiting period were mandated for using a suicide kit, then why would anyone do that instead of jumping off a ledge? I have never been suicidal so I may be wrong here, but I don't think people would be thinking completely rationally right before they try to kill themselves. Would one's thought process go along the lines of "I want to kill myself to end all this anguish, so why don't I go sign up for that suicide clinic they were advertising last week!" Or would they just kill themselves quickly and impulsively? Obviously my fictitious quote is an exaggeration, but try to understand my concern with your logic. If such an option existed, but made you go through a waiting period to check if you were "sure", wouldn't people just kill themselves the old fashioned way?

However, if we suppose that the person isn't sure but wants to go to the clinic to talk it over with people before finally deciding, then I argue such a clinic's sole intention should be to dissuade the person from desiring death, not make sure the person is making an "informed decision". The only reason I can see one would attend such a clinic would be if they were considering suicide but weren't sure, so why should such a place effectively encourage both options? Why not make the clinics focus on preventing needless death?

Re: Suicide......your thoughts

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:12 pm
by f1r3flie
Etelerix wrote:extra dopamine pretty much equals happiness

I disagree. Drugs are more likely to lead one into a worse state of mind through addiction and lead to more likely chance of suicide.

branbadd07 wrote:truly i think the only reason of suicide is if you ARE MAJORLY HURT OR SICK. for any other reason is stupid and sense less.

I agree and disagree here. I think euthenasia is valid and right when survival is impossible or nearly impossible. But there are some times when life is so bad you have no other option. Take the example of someone who has lost every single family member. What do they do? Should they be forced to live? What happens when everything someone has to live for is removed? They have a right to just lay down and die.

Re: Suicide......your thoughts

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:46 pm
by insomaniacal
It's very difficult to argue that they don't have a right to die. But encouraging it in any way shape or form is counter-productive, and that includes "suicide kits". Euthanasia is a different story. I had a family member die slowly from a mix of internal poisoning, bleeding, and cancer. Everyone knew he was going to die, but he had to suffer through it for 3 days. I'm sure he would've preferred to just sign his last will and testament and be done with it.

However, suicide isn't the answer to depression. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Obviously, finding joy or purpose in life can be difficult, varying by degree from person to person, but always a way to make it worthwhile. Suicide Kits introduce an easy way of killing yourself, by advertising the option of doing so, it makes people more inclined to sign up, go through the motions of the waiting period, and kill themselves. It also takes the edge off blowing your brains out, or dieing in some other unpleasant manner, which is often the last barrier between life and death for these people. If they break through that barrier on their own, fine. It's an unfortunate event, but clearly, they've solidly made up their mind (assuming it isn't an impulse suicide). However, removing that major barrier by making it "safe and easy", shouldn't happen.

Also, on the notion of drugs, they have an unnecessarily bad stigma. Extacy was used primarily as an anti-depression/counseling drug when it was developed and before it flooded the clubs. The problem with drugs and depression, is that they're unpredictable. While someone using narcotics with the intent to feel better and have problems float away often succeeds, a person suffering from depression might not be so lucky, and so they could induce him/her into making a rash choice for death.

Re: Suicide......your thoughts

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:10 am
by fishtits
I don't think it being illegal is going to stop anyone from doing it lol. Heres my view on suicide. If your ready to kill yourself you obviously have nothing to lose. Someone with nothing to lose has a huge edge in life. There are so many risky things to do in life that pay out to the extreme when they go right and have serious consequences if they go wrong. If you were planning on dying anyway, how serious are these consequences? I've contemplated what I'll do if I ever just decide I have nothing to live for and nothing to lose or if I get irreversible cancer etc. In the latter case, I'll go on a mad prolonged drug binge with a load of hookers and when I'm starting to get too low on energy to do crazy shit like that heres what I'm gonna do. Rent a motorbike (obviously I wont tell them I only have a couple of weeks to live lol), a bus and a video camera, make some explosives (probably acetone peroxide), rig the motorbike with the explosives, park the bus alongside a cliff and build a large ramp behind the bus. Then I'll get my brothers and friends to come over to the site and get someone to video camera the whole thing. This will be at night time. I'll cover myself in petrol then get a run at the ramp and ramp over the bus then light myself on fire and blow myself up in mid air. It'll be quite the spectacle
That'll be one of the craziest stunts anyone has ever gotten on camera so I'll have left something for my friends and family. Thats how I want my body disposed of too, I don't want my family paying for a funeral, coffin, gravesite and tombstone and all that bullshit, I want by corpse to be blown up and scattered. The only people paying for this funeral will be whoever rents me the motorbike :mrgreen:

Re: Suicide......your thoughts

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:01 pm
by Kwing
Suicide is a choice we almost always have, despite whatever else comes to it. I think of it as a fire escape that's always there, but only for emergency use. The way I see it, we should have freedom to do what we want in life, but some people get bogged down and kill themselves without enough consideration of aftermath. I think suicide should be legal, but should be filed for. And for shit's sake, we should be able to discuss it openly with people we love. When we can't we just feel more oppressed and more inclined to do it.

Re: Suicide......your thoughts

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:50 pm
by osamabinobama
My life is too precious and so is yours.

Re: Suicide......your thoughts

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:45 pm
by GoComplex
One thing is terribly wrong about the world we are currently living in. Some people often decide what a single individe can and can't do. And they sometimes judge wrongly.
There are actions that might affect others' freedom in a bad way. These actions should be prohibited.
But suicide is not amongst them. A quiet withdrawal from the world doesn't directly hurt anyone, and thus the decision to end one's life should be left to him.

And please stop limiting the reasons for suicide with only depression and sad happenings. There sometimes are thoghts in ones head that are almost impossible to explain, yet they are real and they make you lose all the interest in life/people/future/self.