Carrying Firearms

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Re: Carrying Firearms

Post by Monica on Wed May 20, 2009 9:29 pm
([msg=24066]see Re: Carrying Firearms[/msg])

Topic moved to Ethics.
hi am new so plz dont troll me or i report 2 the HTS mods ty
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Re: Carrying Firearms

Post by Possumdude0 on Thu May 21, 2009 9:24 am
([msg=24091]see Re: Carrying Firearms[/msg])

n America, the right to arms used to be a practical privelege, but nowadays, there's just no reason for the average citizen to need a shotgun (or other firearm) in their home, unless they plan on using it on someone else.

Keep guns on an absolutely need-to-own basis, so they're restricted to the armed services, armed-response police units, and government security and intelligence, and with a bit of luck, no innocents get shot.


"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson

The purpose of the second amendment, at least in my interpretation, is to prevent tyranny by our own government and to aid in defence of our soil in the case of an unexpected attack.

In fact, it goes further than just letting citizens own guns, citizens have a responsibility to own guns, and what's more we have a responsibility to be trained in the use of them.

Even if you disagree on our responsibility to own guns (and I'm open to disagreements on that point), I hope you can agree that anyone who does own a gun should be well-trained in the use of that gun, most importantly they should be well-trained in when to not use a gun (which is most of the time).

In fact, I personally think that anyone who owns a gun should be nearly as well-trained as a police officer, both in firearms training and in training to work with other people (police are trained to work with other police, right?). Because the second amendment specifically states that it's discussing a well-regulated militia.
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Re: Carrying Firearms

Post by Spectre557 on Fri May 22, 2009 5:52 am
([msg=24162]see Re: Carrying Firearms[/msg])

Possumdude0 wrote:In fact, I personally think that anyone who owns a gun should be nearly as well-trained as a police officer, both in firearms training and in training to work with other people (police are trained to work with other police, right?). Because the second amendment specifically states that it's discussing a well-regulated militia.

That seems like a good idea in some regards. Maybe gun licenses should operate similarly to driving licenses? You have to pay to take a test to prove your aptitude and safety knowledge before you can legally own one.

Seems like a good compromise to me.
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Re: Carrying Firearms

Post by aNewHobby4me on Fri May 22, 2009 8:36 am
([msg=24181]see Re: Carrying Firearms[/msg])

Spectre557 wrote:That seems like a good idea in some regards. Maybe gun licenses should operate similarly to driving licenses? You have to pay to take a test to prove your aptitude and safety knowledge before you can legally own one.


If you change the one word "own" to "carry" it is a very close parallel to the concealed carry license for firearms.

Anyone can own a car, it is just an object. Anyone can drive it around on their own property. However, to drive it on the street the operator has to have a license.

[Edit]

I thought that this would be a good time to point out that no law ever enacted ever compelled or prohibited human action. Laws only describe what behavior is expected and what punishments may be given for being convicted of breaking said laws.

Laws are obeyed by people who either have respect for the law (agree with the reason for the law itself), or fear of it (don't want to get caught and punished).
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Re: Carrying Firearms

Post by zenithSmil3 on Fri May 22, 2009 12:45 pm
([msg=24197]see Re: Carrying Firearms[/msg])

In an ideal situation, I say lockdown on guns. Disallow them. However, it is impossible to complete regulate them and criminals would be getting them.

It really depends what country though. If America, it really is impossible to really eradicate civilian owned arms. There are too many people and the government does not have the resources. If the country was smaller, say Singapore, such things would work.

So, I don't support guns being personally owned, but alas an ideal scenario would be impossible to reach...
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Re: Carrying Firearms

Post by colniko on Fri May 22, 2009 1:21 pm
([msg=24200]see Re: Carrying Firearms[/msg])

I find it ironic that anyone from THIS particular forum/site would be for taking guns away from non-criminals. Admittedly I do not know the statistics but I am sure if you took the total number of guns in the world and compared it to the total number of actual gun crimes the percentage would be miniscule. However, lets say you are correct. To prevent ANY gun related crimes that may occur lets ban all firearms. Even those that are used for legal purposes and by law abiding citizens. Keeping that same track, I suppose we should ban nmap, netcat, ping, and a slew of other "tools" that criminal hackers could use to do harm. I mean, yeh, they are used for legitimate purposes by sysadmins and pen-testers, but the mere fact that a naughty hacker could use it as well...

I like guns. I have several. I have never committed any crimes nor do I have any mental issues to preclude me from owning and using them. So why should I be punished for the ignorant minority that misuses them? How about cars and alcohol. I have a social drink once in a while. I also own a car and drive quite often, however, what I do not do is drink AND drive at the same time. Because I am responsible. But maintaining the same thought process that some seem to have, we should ban either ALL cars or ALL alcohol to keep the small percentage of idiots from harming others. Yeh? What if they just made restrictions that say, if you own a car you are not allowed to EVER consume alcohol?

My point is, at what point do you have to draw the line? When do you stop punishing responsible people and start making penalties for the law breakers more severe? Here is a novel idea.. how about judges actually upholding some of the convictions and giving real criminals some real time? OK, I am ranting. I am stepping down from my soap box.
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Re: Carrying Firearms

Post by Dan R on Fri May 22, 2009 3:21 pm
([msg=24204]see Re: Carrying Firearms[/msg])

Im not sure what i think about firearms. im from the UK were i beleve we are not allowed them unless licenced (gun and user) and in or directly on route to an allowed fireing zone. it does mean that the armed responce can narrow down suspects of gun crimes, to obviously, just the ones with guns. But they could probably charge you with murder if you have a gun any where near a gun crime. im not sure if gun crime is more "advanced" there are ciminals with uzis.
But i guess guns mean the attacker always wins. if you have a gun and they have a gun, if they attack you it dosent matter if you have a M249. if they are any good shot you are dead before you can even see them.
And as a further question should all hand guns be band as they are more consileble?
i don't all guns are consilable.
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Re: Carrying Firearms

Post by Charlieace on Sat May 30, 2009 10:11 pm
([msg=24656]see Re: Carrying Firearms[/msg])

if we were allowed to carry firearms, shooting would increase because we had the resources to shoot. if we don't have a gun, we can't shoot, can we?

and just remember the wild west. lol
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Re: Carrying Firearms

Post by zenithSmil3 on Sat May 30, 2009 10:45 pm
([msg=24657]see Re: Carrying Firearms[/msg])

Charlieace wrote:if we were allowed to carry firearms, shooting would increase because we had the resources to shoot. if we don't have a gun, we can't shoot, can we?

and just remember the wild west. lol


If arms were banned, the criminals would have the guns, the law abiding people won't. It's not like "oh! i have a gun so I am going outside to shoot people with it!" There are regulations, and I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to do that. I don't think the Wild West is a fair comparison.
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Re: Carrying Firearms

Post by shinigmai on Sun May 31, 2009 3:41 am
([msg=24660]see Re: Carrying Firearms[/msg])

I was slightly disappointed to not read anything about hunting. Lots of people across the world use guns to hunt. Take away guns and you take away hunting.

Another thing that lots of people do with guns is target practice. Just like hunting, many people across the world enjoy shooting guns at a gun range. There is a certain enjoyable feeling that comes with this.

My point is, there are other reasons for owning a gun other than crime and self-defense.
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