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Ethics ....A world where God does not exist!!!!!

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:16 pm
by 1234anima
It was 1997 i was in my college days,I am a second year college Engineering student(sorry i dont make it)>The Biggest reality subject of my life which makes me a good man right now is all about Ethics.When you reason about ethics avoid using the term God or your instructor will fail you in a class..The Final Lesson I learned from Ethics "Is man by nature Good?

Is man really good in Ethics by nature....The answer is yes.. no more no less..no matter how evil or good you are ,,,you always seek what is good for yourself..thats a final answer...as i said God does not exist with the subject "Ethics".

Re: Ethics ....A world where God does not exist!!!!!

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:22 pm
by AtlasDark
One man may render his assistance, but will always carry with him the bias of greed and personal gain.

Re: Ethics ....A world where God does not exist!!!!!

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 3:24 am
by zenithSmil3
Well... whether they be naturally good or evil, I don't think anybody has done something in the name of evil.

Re: Ethics ....A world where God does not exist!!!!!

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:06 am
by Heath Winchester
My friend, I must point out a small detail you have missed.

Sociopath - Unconcerned about the adverse consequences for others of one's actions


And when you talk about man being "good" how is using their goals and what they want to do as an example work? Just because somebody wants to do something that will be "good" for them does not mean that they themselves are good. There's no connection. Just because you want something you think is "good" does make you so. The biggest example was Hitler. He wanted something that was good in his opinion, but as we all know was considered inherently evil.

Re: Ethics ....A world where God does not exist!!!!!

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:03 am
by zenithSmil3
Who defines good and evil?

For humans, isn't it just a stereotype of what Good and Evil is and just a matter of opinion?

Re: Ethics ....A world where God does not exist!!!!!

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:17 pm
by Heath Winchester
That is not what we are discussing here. I thought we were assuming good and evil were defined from your previous posts. If they are not then the basis for this original topic is null.

To answer your other question, I agree that wrong and right, good and evil are really opinions. I can say all day that somebody is wrong and technically speaking, if he believes he's right, then we both have opinions that do not coincide.

But one also must take into account ones conscious. Is your conscious something that is instilled in you from birth? Or is it something that is developed through years of social brainwashing? (for lack of a better term as I cannot think of the Psychological term at this time)

Re: Ethics ....A world where God does not exist!!!!!

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 4:35 am
by zenithSmil3
Heath Winchester wrote:But one also must take into account ones conscious. Is your conscious something that is instilled in you from birth? Or is it something that is developed through years of social brainwashing? (for lack of a better term as I cannot think of the Psychological term at this time)


Apologies for the off-topic, I don't know any better...

I think that people's consciences evolve through the years as shown from what people in the past believed to be good, are now perceived as bad. It changes depending on social norms and conforms to our moral values.

In the past, societies were all disconnected however in today's modern world, we are all being connected with global communication and I suppose that changes our perception of what is good and evil in order to reflect on thoughts that will be beneficial to all... Conscience evolves along with social norms and moral values which change constantly as we are faced with new situations.

Sorry, I might be off-topic again.

Re: Ethics ....A world where God does not exist!!!!!

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:34 am
by Heath Winchester
The only problem with our logic (mine included) is that we can't really know. Would somebody who has never had any sort of moral upbringing feel that it was wrong to murder somebody or steal something? It's quite hard to study this as just about all humans are brought up with some fundamental fact that these things are wrong. Did caveman feel it wrong to murder a fellow...cave person? ;)

It is true that laws such as drugs being illegal, Speed limits and trivial things of that nature are just laws made by humans in the name of safety and are taught to us as things that are somehow wrong. But Murdering and the like have always been around and have people always felt that they were wrong?

But to prove your point even further, take homosexuality for example. It's only been recently that homosexuals have started feeling good about themselves because for so many hundreds of years homosexuality was so morally wrong in the eyes of man. It's much more accepted now and I'm sure that the next generation of people will hardly be able to imagine how it was once such a bad thing. This proves that at least some morals are nothing more than brainwashing basically.

Re: Ethics ....A world where God does not exist!!!!!

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:25 am
by zenithSmil3
I believe murder has always been perceived as wrong from the moment we evolved enough to realize that the people surrounding us... are other people. I'm judging murder to be the killing of a sentient being with malicious intent... as only humans are capable of murder. (Malicious intent). And, those non sociopaths would perceive murder as wrong, and maybe not care. (I'm ignoring the Allegory of the Cave)

Without proper upbringing, I believe that murder will still be thought of as wrong though speeding, drugs and 'other trivial things' won't be. Maybe with some logic, one could come to conclusion that restrictions against such things is good or that might just be the opinion of a person who lives in a society for extended periods of time. (I say good is the familiar and evil is the unfamiliar...)

As you said, we can't really know whether somebody with no moral upbringing would still have the same perception of good and evil, though probably came quite close. I believe there was this guy who performed all sorts of unethical experiments. This of course took place a long long time ago. Street children and babies were locked up and isolated from the rest of society, with minimal human contact. They did not even know how to speak. However, the conclusion to the experiment never came to be as all test subjects died.

Re: Ethics ....A world where God does not exist!!!!!

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 1:20 pm
by Heath Winchester
Yes, so by your conclusion of murder than that would suggest humans being instilled from birth with a basic sense of right and wrong. I tend to agree with you on that matter. It's an interesting topic of conversation.

Quite a few of the laws that Govern us today have nothing to do with right and wrong. They have more to do with monetary gain and personal profit. Take swearing for example. Why on Earth is Fuck supposed the mother of all curse words? It is a perfectly legitimate word when used in the proper context. What made it so morally wrong in the first place? I haven't been able to come up with much of a conclusion to this question. Anybody else have an opinion?

Even taking it from a Biblical standpoint doesn't work as the Bible only talks about keeping yourself clean and taking God's name in vain. So by that standard, Damn, Hell, Shit, etc... are all perfectly legitimate words. Yet, Christians frown upon them and I can't understand why other than that it's a control mechanism.