Americans - who are you voting for?

Current events and political views (It's not liberal vs conservative , it's better versus worse!)

Choose your candidate

I'm not voting
19
28%
Mccain
21
30%
Obama
29
42%
Clinton
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 69

Re: Americans - who are you voting for?

Post by Stormc1nd3r on Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:44 pm
([msg=5464]see Re: Americans - who are you voting for?[/msg])

Wow, I thought this was supposed to be arguments for/against the presidential hopefuls. It`s turned into a fallacy-filled hate topic. EVERYONE HAS THERE OWN OPINION, DON`T HATE THEM FOR DISAGREEING WITH YOU!! And I`m not for Mcain, but who says we spend x dollars in Iraq? You don`t know that for a fact, that`s your OPINION that is not based on any logic whatsoever. If it is, please prove it to me.
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Re: Americans - who are you voting for?

Post by OneArrow on Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:10 pm
([msg=5469]see Re: Americans - who are you voting for?[/msg])

I started an Iraq War topic, to try to keep things OT here.

Stormc1nd3r wrote:Wow, I thought this was supposed to be arguments for/against the presidential hopefuls. It`s turned into a fallacy-filled hate topic. EVERYONE HAS THERE OWN OPINION, DON`T HATE THEM FOR DISAGREEING WITH YOU!!


First, please don't shout - there's no need.

Second, I don't think anyone was hating anybody for disagreeing. A heated debate, perhaps, with very pointed responses (some better presented than others). But no real malice.

Stormc1nd3r wrote:And I`m not for Mcain, but who says we spend x dollars in Iraq? You don`t know that for a fact, that`s your OPINION that is not based on any logic whatsoever. If it is, please prove it to me.


In short, Congress.

While I'm not sure were the $4 billion/week figure came from, the fact (not an assertion, and certainly not an opinion) remains that well over half a trillion dollars have been spent on the conflict so far. The data is obviously going to vary depending on when those figures were collected (and how the parties involved skew the facts), but this seems as good a starting point as any.
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Re: Americans - who are you voting for?

Post by romulous on Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:48 am
([msg=5494]see Re: Americans - who are you voting for?[/msg])

Well, This is fun! I am so seldom called upon to back up my facts, and it really pisses me off! Lazy bastards and fools will question nothing! I was slightly off in my figures, but the error is in my favor, so all good:

"Earlier this year, the Bush Administration requested $147.5 billion to cover the
cost of military operations in fiscal year (FY) 2008.2 Within the next few months, it
reportedly plans to ask for roughly an additional $50 billion in 2008 funding, in part
to help cover the cost extending the surge of US force in Iraq into next year.3"

http://www.csbaonline.org/4Publications ... US_Ope.pdf

Please feel free to check my sources, but the Washington Post uses them, as does the US Congress, so their reliability is fairly high. In any event by their math it is 2.83 billion per week, and if Bush gets the extra 50,000,000,000 then slightly over 3 billion. But thanks for asking and questioning me, seriously, don't believe other's bullshit, and never believe your own! Always check facts!

But back on topic, I have not made a personal attack, merely a political one. I oppose the Republican Party as it stands now. It used to be a party based on responsible fiscal spending, less government, fewer laws, and more personal freedom. Under Bush and similar retards it has become the exact polar opposite, and has been completely overcome by the Religious Wrong. It no longer bears any resemblance to the great political establishment it once was.

I am not exactly in favor of the Democrats either, but they constitute the lesser of two evils. I am pro-gun, pro-freedom, and pro-Constitution. The dems have no fucking stones, even when they took controll of the house and senate they still rolled over for Bush. They could have stone walled him and made him a lame duck. Instead they enabled him to escalate the war, screw the economy, and pass even more restrictive laws.

I want a Constitutionist party. One that goes in and weighs each law to see if it is within the bounds of the Constitution, or should be struck down. Then I want just one more thing, repeal the ammendment that prevents Arnold Schwartzenegger from running for prez. He is the closest candidate to what I want except for me. We just need to get him over his homophobia. It is not anyone's business if gays want to be married, and religions and government hold no monopoly on it.
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Re: Americans - who are you voting for?

Post by Lord DarkMasterKyzer on Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:32 pm
([msg=5504]see Re: Americans - who are you voting for?[/msg])

Their is a constitutional party, except, What chance does a party with only a couple thousand registered voters have?
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Re: Americans - who are you voting for?

Post by romulous on Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:45 pm
([msg=5533]see Re: Americans - who are you voting for?[/msg])

Without advertising? No chance at all. Sad really, the Communist Party has more followers than the Constitutionist Party in a nation supposedly founded on the Constitution.

You study law, tell me this: If the majority of laws were weighed before the standards set forth in the US Constitution, what percentage do you think would pass muster, and which specific laws would fail to measure up?

Laws I know fail:
USA PATRIOT ACT
Sex Offender Regestration Laws
The hold placed on Habeus Corpus (Just repealed)
The Presidential Order detaining US Citizens without representation, charges, or trial indefinately in Gitmo.
The CIA exporting people to countries that allow torture.
There are a great many more, but those stick out.

Anyone else may feel free to post more, but this is directed to darkmasterkaiser.
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Re: Americans - who are you voting for?

Post by Lord DarkMasterKyzer on Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:59 pm
([msg=5584]see Re: Americans - who are you voting for?[/msg])

Why does everyone keep telling me stuff I already know? Im a Republican-By-And-For the the constitution.
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Re: Americans - who are you voting for?

Post by romulous on Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:08 pm
([msg=5592]see Re: Americans - who are you voting for?[/msg])

I was not terrling you something ou already knew, i was asking for other examples. NOW COUGH SOME UP! Lol. :P
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Re: Americans - who are you voting for?

Post by OneArrow on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:33 pm
([msg=5624]see Re: Americans - who are you voting for?[/msg])

romulous wrote:I was not terrling you something ou already knew, i was asking for other examples. NOW COUGH SOME UP! Lol. :P


Anything that has to do with gun control, for starters.

First, the right to bear arms is guaranteed by the Second Amendment, cut-and-dry. Secondly, the argument that it makes it easy for the bad guys to get their hands on them is flawed, in that people expect criminals to obey the law and get their firearms from a legal source. Punishing the law-abiding is never the solution, and in this case, it is merely an excuse to prevent the general populace from rising up to protect themselves if need be.
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Re: Americans - who are you voting for?

Post by Lord DarkMasterKyzer on Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:39 pm
([msg=5686]see Re: Americans - who are you voting for?[/msg])

The only reason the japs didnt invade the west coast in WWII was because a officer in the government told the emperor their would be a gun behind every blade of grass.... Im serious!
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Re: Americans - who are you voting for?

Post by Cypher Phantom on Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:04 pm
([msg=5689]see Re: Americans - who are you voting for?[/msg])

We went to Iraq for the right reasons starting with "Charlie Wilson," if you ever seem the movie or something. Iraq was a strong hold for the Soviets, so in other words we had to go to Iraq or leave them for the Soviets to conquer them. When we helped them the first time it's possibly that the people there still remember the training, and still have weapons from the first time.
If we let up now with out conquering the nation or stabilizing the country, the Soviets and other ENEMIES are going to look at so in a different way, meaning that we as a nation is now soft. If the Soviets do give nuclear weapons to Iraq, and or Cuba, Both imagine that. Cuba is very close to the US. Which with Nuclear Weapons Fidel Castro or his fag brother can do some serous damage.
Anyway I personally look at it if we leave right away were going to be looked at in a different way, If we stay; the more US citizens are going to rebel/protest the war, "Niccolò Machiavelli" states in his how to book "The Prince" that "if you give the people to much and take some back there going to rebel and end up over trowing you. Taking away a mans business is more painful than his own father dieing."


To sum this up, THE US IS NOT PUSSY AND SHOULD STAY AND FIGHT.
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