Is HTML a programming language?

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Is HTML a programming language?

Post by comperr on Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:14 pm
([msg=577]see Is HTML a programming language?[/msg])

logs from IRC wrote:[ <jon> oh yeah.
[ <jon> all you need is a compiler.
[ <jon> e.g. an interpreter.
[ <button> and the browser is an intrepter...
[ <button> I see somewhat...
[ <jon> it would be a different type of logic than C or anything reasonable. but my point was that it's possible.
[ <button> but jon HTML is only used to define WHAT certain things are
[ <button> it can by itself take no actions on the objects
[ <button> it needs JS for that
[ <jon> are you sure?
[ <jon> it's markup, like any programming language.
[ <button> yeah HTML is designed to seperate design and objects
[ <button> most browsers ignore that rule and add there own DEFAULT design
[ <jon> but in this case it would be interpeted by a compiler into binary
[ <button> but its still not part of HTML in of itself
[ <jon> it's not that anyone would ever do such a thing (C is our friend). but my point was that it's not only plausible, but very possible.
[ <jon> most people are confused on what a "programming" language actually is.
[ <button> its not possible for HTML the way it is designed to perform even basic arithmatic
[ <jon> sure it is.
[ <button> how?
[ <jon> providing it's interpretted correctly.
[ <jon> which is nothing short of what a compiler is designed for.
[ <button> but the way it is designed it can't ever operate on previsly defined data
[ <button> in fact the REAL way for a browser to display HTML with no CSS/JS is a blank page or just the text
[ <button> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/
[ <jon> html/and xml are all about data. and letting what is usually a browser interpret that data, and react accordingly
[ <button> yes intrepet but no do anything with
[ <jon> if your browser doesn't do anything with the data, then how do webpages work?
[ <jon> why does <body bgColor="red"> produce a red background?
[ <button> they are invalid they aren't supposed to do anything with it unless it has CSS or JS
[ <button> bgColor is taken out
[ <button> it has been replaced with style=""
[ <button> from CSS
[ <jon> alright, then tables.
[ <button> b/c bgColor is against the point
[ <jon> provide formatting information to the browswer, and it then puts the text in nice little rows.
[ <button> tables should not be used for design
[ <button> a browser should show a table as pure text unless it has CSS
[ <button> most browsers use a DEFAULT style
[ <jon> it's just an example of how html provides data for the browser, which reacts accordingly.
[ <button> but that it NOT HTML
[ <button> html converted to C should look like
[ <button> var el1="table"
[ <button> var el2 = "fdk"
[ <button> var el4 = "data"
[ <button> its basicly a LIST OF DATA with NO ACTIONS
[ <jon> html is xml, and xml is all about data. if you have data, you can do almost anything you like with it.
[ <button> yes
[ <button> but XML is merely data
[ <jon> what is a C program? just a bunch of text?
[ <button> it is not the actions you would take
[ <jon> says who?
[ <button> C contains both data and actions
[ <button> says the w3c
[ <jon> who's to say that html or anything in this world can't be interpreted into machine language?
[ <jon> you can convert machine code into a picture, and visa versa. which should be proof enough that the concept is sound.
[ <button> erm it can be
[ <jon> vice versa maybe.. my spelling is not so good.
[ <button> it would look like
[ <button> store this to memory
[ <button> store B to memory
[ <button> store C to memory
[ <button> and thats it
[ <button> it would have no further actions....
[ <jon> brilliant colors? yes. as well as awesome patterns
[ <button> no colors
[ <button> colors are part of CSS
[ <button> not pure HTM
[ <button> not pure HTML
[ <jon> HTML can be, and is, interpretted in many ways.
[ <button> yes based upon CSS or JS
[ <jon> no.
[ <button> pure HTML is an array of data
[ <button> no more
[ <jon> yep. and if you have data. you have everything.
[ <button> no
[ <jon> at least.. everything required to build an executable file.
[ <button> you need to be able to take actions upon the data
[ <jon> who says you can't?
[ <button> which HTML has no BUILT IN ability to do so
[ <jon> how do you think your compiler works?
[ <button> jon the HTML is like the main file while CSS is like the header
[ <jon> (assuming you've used one)
[ <button> the compiler can't work w/o either
[ <jon> yes it can.
[ <button> jon not if the main file calls functions from the header
[ <jon> who says that the main has to call functions from a header?
[ <button> jon how should a browser display this line correctly
[ <button> <strong>fun</strong>
[ <jon> doesn't matter.
[ <jon> what matters is what it does.
[ <button> what does that line DO then?
[ <jon> in a standard browser?
[ <button> no
[ <button> in a perfect browser
[ <button> (one that actually follows ALL rules)
[ <jon> like i said. it doesn't matter. what matters is what the browser decides to do with that information.
[ <button> Where HTML elements define the abstract structure of a document, CSS directives are interpreted by the web browser to render those elements in visual form.
[ <button> it does matter
[ <button> a perfect browser WOULD DO NOTHING with that line
[ <button> as it doesn't tell it to DO anything
[ <button> it would just display the text AS IS maybe
<jon> yes, because that's how the browser was designed.
<jon> what if you designed a browser to convert that into machine code? well then you've got a compiler.
<button> besides No HTML specification has ever called HTML a programming language, or anything like that.
[16: <jon> and?
[16: <button> ML documents are SGML documents with generic semantics that are appropriate for representing information from a wide range of domains.
[16: <button> html is information, not instructions
[16: <jon> no one ever referred to C as a programming language in the 1700s but that surely is not proof that it is not one today.
<jon> information is, and can be instructions.
<button> hrm I see where we differ at least...
<jon> ;) standards aren't set in stone.
<jon> is my point.
<button> information is mearly data, inscructions are operations based upon data
<button> 1 + 1 = 2
<button> 1 is data
<button> + is an insrction
<jon> + is data.
<button> would you say that 1 is an instruction
<button> + is not data
<jon> everything is data.
<button> + by itself would tell you nothing
<button> jon do you consider MS word documents to be a programming language?
<jon> if they were interpretted correctly, yes.
<button> what about word lists used by JtR
<jon> again. under the circumstances as i have previosly described, yes.
<button> what is "a" ?
<jon> data.
<button> and is that a program?
<button> and is the alphabet a programming language?
<jon> could be. a compiler could find all instances of a, and replace them with the equivalent of mov eax,97
<button> jon if something is a programming language then there must be something that is NOT a programming language correct ?
<button> according to you ALL things EVERYWHERE is a programming language
<jon> not necesarrily(spelling)
<button> don't worry about spelling ;)
<button> HTML is only a static collection of data
<button> jon http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/prog.html > I took some of my arguments from there read it its interesting anyway I see where we differ
<button> its mostly definitions...
06 * button has a stricter definition
<jon> ;) people often don't see programming for what it really is.
<button> jon some people assume too much is programming
<button> ;)
<button> anyway I enjoyed talking to you...
<jon> lol. certainly not.
<button> how often are you on?
<jon> same.
<jon> from time to time.
<button> lol kk are you ever on the forums?
<jon> less and less though, finals are coming up.
<jon> not in a long time.
<button> :( join again hackthissite.org/forums
<jon> not on CS anymore?
<button> no they split :(
<jon> why?
<button> cause the CS oldies didn't like HTS
<button> mind if I paste these logs?
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Re: Is HTML a programming language?

Post by terminus on Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:34 pm
([msg=600]see Re: Is HTML a programming language?[/msg])

That's effing hilarious. HTML = Hypertext Markup Language. It's a markup language not a programming language. Says so in the name.
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Re: Is HTML a programming language?

Post by Kytter on Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:09 am
([msg=637]see Re: Is HTML a programming language?[/msg])

terminus wrote:That's effing hilarious. HTML = Hypertext Markup Language. It's a markup language not a programming language. Says so in the name.

That's right.
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Re: Is HTML a programming language?

Post by TheMindRapist on Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:20 pm
([msg=925]see Re: Is HTML a programming language?[/msg])

HTML is not a programming language lol.
PHP yes, HTML, no.
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Re: Is HTML a programming language?

Post by terminus on Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:48 pm
([msg=984]see Re: Is HTML a programming language?[/msg])

TheMindRapist wrote:HTML is not a programming language lol.
PHP yes, HTML, no.


PHP is not a programming language either. PHP Hypertext Preprocessor (scripting language). However, PHP is much more closely related to a programming language than HTML.
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Re: Is HTML a programming language?

Post by Bocom on Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:35 am
([msg=1504]see Re: Is HTML a programming language?[/msg])

terminus wrote:
TheMindRapist wrote:HTML is not a programming language lol.
PHP yes, HTML, no.


PHP is not a programming language either. PHP Hypertext Preprocessor (scripting language). However, PHP is much more closely related to a programming language than HTML.


Indeed, it is MUCH closer to being a programming language than HTML:

C/C++ -> Perl -> PHP

PHP is a descendant of Perl, which is a high-level dynamic programming language (Dynamic Programming = Scripting, more or less. Thus, I consider scripting in a scripting language programming, but that's not the point), which stems from, amongst others, C and C++.

So PHP _is_ a programming language. But since it's a high-level one, it's considered a scripting language instead.
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Re: Is HTML a programming language?

Post by comperr on Sun May 04, 2008 8:41 am
([msg=2064]see Re: Is HTML a programming language?[/msg])

would someone define a programming language.
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Re: Is HTML a programming language?

Post by 3nIGhost on Sun May 04, 2008 10:37 am
([msg=2077]see Re: Is HTML a programming language?[/msg])

comperr wrote:would someone define a programming language.


* A programming language is an artificial language that can be used to control the behavior of a machine, particularly a computer. Programming languages, like human languages, are defined through the use of syntactic and semantic rules, to determine structure and meaning respectively.

in short terms:

* An artificial language that enables people to instruct machines. Computer commands that form procedures by which software programmers design and implement computer software programs.

And in Shorter Terms:

* A formal language used to write instructions that can be translated into machine language and then executed by a computer.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

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