Idea to improve missions

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Idea to improve missions

Post by aClockworkScrivener on Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:48 pm
([msg=66919]see Idea to improve missions[/msg])

So, sometimes after I'm done with a mission, i still feel like i didn't actually learn what I did, I just looked up the commands/basic concepts, and was able to pass. So I propose that when you are done with a mission, especially in basic, you get an explanation explaining what you just did. Just a thought.

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Re: Idea to improve missions

Post by edone automaton on Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:16 pm
([msg=66922]see Re: Idea to improve missions[/msg])

Look, its no secret you can just go on youtube and look for the solution to the missions. You can look through the mission help threads and get pretty heavy pointers as to what you should be looking up. or you can take the time to learn and solve the mission that way. It's up to you. I get what you're saying, but if you complete a mission without knowing what you did or why, who's fault is that?

The thing with the missions is (ignoring the fact that many of them are now obsolete in terms of actual 'hacking'), you get out what you put in. So if you complete a mission by whatever means and don't understand what you did, you still have a good basis for learning something because you have an idea of what you SHOULD know. Get busy. Find out about the Linux commands or whatever it was you fudged your way through. If you do something without understanding it however and are then TOLD what you did, that is no different to just being told in the first place.

The points mean nothing, I for one could not give a solitary fuck how many missions someone has solved because the easy availability of solutions renders them meaningless. Be true to yourself and learn something, if you do that I will grant you +1000 edone points.
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Re: Idea to improve missions

Post by limdis on Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:25 pm
([msg=66923]see Re: Idea to improve missions[/msg])

edone automaton wrote:Look, its no secret you can just go on youtube and look for the solution to the missions. You can look through the mission help threads and get pretty heavy pointers as to what you should be looking up. or you can take the time to learn and solve the mission that way. It's up to you. I get what you're saying, but if you complete a mission without knowing what you did or why, who's fault is that? <br><br>The thing with the missions is (ignoring the fact that many of them are now obsolete in terms of actual 'hacking'), you get out what you put in. So if you complete a mission by whatever means and don't understand what you did, you still have a good basis for learning something because you have an idea of what you SHOULD know. Get busy. Find out about the Linux commands or whatever it was you fudged your way through. If you do something without understanding it however and are then TOLD what you did, that is no different to just being told in the first place.<br><br>The points mean nothing, I for one could not give a solitary fuck how many missions someone has solved because the easy availability of solutions renders them meaningless. Be true to yourself and learn something, if you do that I will grant you +1000 edone points.


+10!
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Re: Idea to improve missions

Post by Kage on Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:52 pm
([msg=66926]see Re: Idea to improve missions[/msg])

edone automaton wrote:if you complete a mission without knowing what you did or why, who's fault is that?


Ours.

Getting something out of a mission should be clearly laid out, as simply as possible. Some of this shit is guesswork and not obvious, and if someone didn't learn from it, it is our fault. Our mission is to provide people educational material about hacking in various forms. If people cannot immediately grasp that lesson learned, then we've kind of failed.

It's something I've long seen as a problem and worked to try and fix with as many modern-day new missions as possible. The HTS devs are working on some new missions to come with HTS v5.
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Re: Idea to improve missions

Post by hellow533 on Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:02 am
([msg=66927]see Re: Idea to improve missions[/msg])

Kage wrote:
edone automaton wrote:if you complete a mission without knowing what you did or why, who's fault is that?


Ours.

Getting something out of a mission should be clearly laid out, as simply as possible. Some of this shit is guesswork and not obvious, and if someone didn't learn from it, it is our fault. Our mission is to provide people educational material about hacking in various forms. If people cannot immediately grasp that lesson learned, then we've kind of failed.

It's something I've long seen as a problem and worked to try and fix with as many modern-day new missions as possible. The HTS devs are working on some new missions to come with HTS v5.

They should have explanations of what to do on the mission, along to what exploits you are using and how you might be able to use, and protect against them in the real world. If somebody doesn't understand realistic 1, they shouldn't have to go on a forum or youtube. There should be information on what to do and how to do it, along with editing tools to help you do it (like realistic 1 having a built in html editor so you can change the value from there, and not have to DL certain things like firbug).
Just my thoughts.
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Re: Idea to improve missions

Post by anarchy420x on Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:33 am
([msg=66929]see Re: Idea to improve missions[/msg])

I think the missions are great. But, I also think that the current missions be upgraded before new missions constructed. Since technology evolves exponentially there honestly is no way to keep up with it as far as teaching goes. However, if you set up the missions well and give people appropriate information to go with it including http://www.lmgtfy.com. Don't mistake me, I think they should learn how to research on their own. That's why I think you should implement "bonus" criteria for each mission.
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Re: Idea to improve missions

Post by hellow533 on Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:07 am
([msg=66930]see Re: Idea to improve missions[/msg])

anarchy420x wrote:Don't mistake me, I think they should learn how to research on their own.

The point of this website isn't only to give people who already know the exploits a place to use them freely, but a website to train people on what the exploits are. I think there should at least be a challenge section called education or something, to actually give people an idea of what to do and how to do it for not only the missions but real life.

Sure, I can make a mission were you have no base idea of what the hell to do. Or, I could make an educational mission that tells you the steps, how to find that directory, or how to secure your websites.

A more education based section would be great.
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Re: Idea to improve missions

Post by anarchy420x on Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:10 am
([msg=66938]see Re: Idea to improve missions[/msg])

hellow533 wrote:
anarchy420x wrote:Don't mistake me, I think they should learn how to research on their own.

The point of this website isn't only to give people who already know the exploits a place to use them freely, but a website to train people on what the exploits are. I think there should at least be a challenge section called education or something, to actually give people an idea of what to do and how to do it for not only the missions but real life.

Sure, I can make a mission were you have no base idea of what the hell to do. Or, I could make an educational mission that tells you the steps, how to find that directory, or how to secure your websites.

A more education based section would be great.


I agree, but half of "hacking" is looking and finding out on your own. You don't have to work alone; you don't even have to learn alone, but you should know what you are doing and learning from everything you are doing. The problem is that "we" are trying to make people learn that they need to know and understand what they are doing. The are only going to do that if they have the will to do it. It's a catch 22 as well, because if "we" give them the information they need then they think if they can make all the check marks then they are 1337 hax0r. I think that the mission of teaching needs to be analyzed to find out who you truly want to teach. What you really want to put out there. If you want to teach the next generation of technological geniuses, then you need to gear it toward them. Give them what they need to full their wants to learn. Show them what is cool. If you want to teach the every day person how to protect themselves, then don't expect them to want to try hard and get into it passionately. Make them a simple checklist that they need to know.
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Re: Idea to improve missions

Post by edone automaton on Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:30 am
([msg=66944]see Re: Idea to improve missions[/msg])

Kage wrote:
edone automaton wrote:if you complete a mission without knowing what you did or why, who's fault is that?


Ours.

Getting something out of a mission should be clearly laid out, as simply as possible. Some of this shit is guesswork and not obvious, and if someone didn't learn from it, it is our fault. Our mission is to provide people educational material about hacking in various forms. If people cannot immediately grasp that lesson learned, then we've kind of failed.

It's something I've long seen as a problem and worked to try and fix with as many modern-day new missions as possible. The HTS devs are working on some new missions to come with HTS v5.


In my opinion , if someone can complete a mission and learn nothing it is no-ones fault but their own. The devs cannot assume accountability for someone else's laziness. The way things are, a mission is just that, a mission: you try something, doesn't work, you try something else, doesn't work, you bitch on the forum, doesn't work, you try something else.... you end up learning five things instead of one.

I do however agree that there needs to be a higher standard of educational resources available on the site which directly relates to the exploits used in the missions, just don't have them in the same place as the actual missions. So for example, say there are sql missions, we make sure that there is a rich supply of articles on site relating to sqli etc (perhaps written by the person that develops the mission) with some walk through examples and little exercises. The student then goes away and tries to work out how to apply their new found knowledge in the mission environment. That way the student builds up an arsenal of techniques and they choose which ones to try out.

hellow533 wrote:They should have explanations of what to do on the mission, along to what exploits you are using and how you might be able to use, and protect against them in the real world. If somebody doesn't understand realistic 1, they shouldn't have to go on a forum or youtube. There should be information on what to do and how to do it, along with editing tools to help you do it (like realistic 1 having a built in html editor so you can change the value from there, and not have to DL certain things like firbug).<br>Just my thoughts.


Which would render it completely unrealistic. In a real situation you are going to need to think of ways around things, you are going to need to think about what tools are available that you can use and manipulate to achieve your aim (I know that you dont need to be told this hellow, im just making the point).

hellow533 wrote: I can make a mission were you have no base idea of what the hell to do. Or, I could make an educational mission that tells you the steps, how to find that directory, or how to secure your websites.


This is my point, you can do both. If we properly educate people they can get stuck into some genuine challenges and be a lot richer for it.
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Re: Idea to improve missions

Post by hellow533 on Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:56 am
([msg=66948]see Re: Idea to improve missions[/msg])

edone automaton wrote:This is my point, you can do both. If we properly educate people they can get stuck into some genuine challenges and be a lot richer for it.

I think an educational section, whether it rewards points or not, would be a great idea honestly. Really, somebody look into this. It might change our underground hacker learn-it-yourself website to an educational website which helps people understand all of this. Like, a large section to explain programming, and sql, and other things articles already do but in a convenient place where there are examples and tests laid out for you to do.
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