Adopt a noob program

[optix212]

Lets face it. The learning curb it takes to go from script kiddie to l33t hacker is almost an impossible leap. Most people get frustrated and quit before the real hacking even begins! My idea may take a leap of faith here, but I know that a lot, if not most, aspiring hackers would like hands on training, as well as learning from the immense amount of resources on the internet. The thing is, when most noobs get stuck, they don't know what they're stuck on and don't know how to research the problem. That is where the "Adopt a noob" program comes in. The advanced hackers on this website "adopt" the noobs that really want to learn. Once the noob shows his new "mentor" that he is really willing to learn, the mentor guides him/her in all the right directions, and assigns him (legal) tasks to do to show that he/she is really advancing. This should be done only when the mentor has the time, and the mentor has full control of how they communicate with their adopted hacker (IM, Email, PM's, etc..) and the times in which they communicate.

I would love to be a mentor if you really consider this idea, but sadly I am only a noob. I would definitely be first on the list to be adopted though!

[Goatboy]

We've had this suggestion several times, and the short answer is that it just would not work.

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5851&hilit=mentor
viewtopic.php?f=79&t=5800&hilit=mentor
viewtopic.php?f=79&t=5296&hilit=mentor
viewtopic.php?f=79&t=5271&hilit=mentor

Those are just to name a few.

[optix212]

I see. I researched a little further after I posted this and decided that these forums may not be active enough to actually support this type of deal. And the noob to mentor ratio would be way too high. I understand completely. Just throwing the idea out there.

[tgoe]

I think you're missing the point, optix212. "Elite" hackers don't need mentors, even if they're still noobs. The quote from Emerson in your sig is quite apt. Besides, mentor sounds like a teaching job... which would require a salary. Can you afford to pay an elite hacker to teach you things? I know I can't

[Defective Flamesuit]

From my point of view the only real problem with this idea is that there aren't enough mentor-worthy members who would be interested. Nearly this exact same idea is done at a video game forum I used to frequent and it works beautifully, but there are about 50 people registered as mentors. I could count the number of active people qualified for this at HTS on two hands. There just isn't enough active, willing talent unfortunately :/

[fashizzlepop]

From my point of view the only real problem with this idea is that there aren't enough mentor-worthy members who would be interested.

I view this completely differently. There is a difference between mentoring and spoon-feeding. The way I see it is that this whole forum is a mentor. If you have a legit question, it WILL get answered. Simple as that.

Now, it takes research on what question to ask. Most of this however can be found on Google or in the forums here.

For example:
Noob A asks: I can program PHP, what do I do next o become a hacker?

Noob B asks: I know how to build a CMS for website and am working on a forum, what techniques could I use to test my CMS and soon to be forum?

Noob B will get a response more detailed than A's. B will learn quicker as he is given better resources and some more guidance.

He achieves more because he took more time to ask.

[tgoe]

@Defective Flamesuit

Sure, but why aren't they interested?

I'd bet that 100% of the mentors on that gaming forum don't play for money. It's not a big leap from hobby gaming to hobby mentoring. That's why you see so many willing mentors there.

[Defective Flamesuit]

From my point of view the only real problem with this idea is that there aren't enough mentor-worthy members who would be interested.

I view this completely differently. There is a difference between mentoring and spoon-feeding. The way I see it is that this whole forum is a mentor. If you have a legit question, it WILL get answered. Simple as that.

Now, it takes research on what question to ask. Most of this however can be found on Google or in the forums here.

For example:
Noob A asks: I can program PHP, what do I do next o become a hacker?

Noob B asks: I know how to build a CMS for website and am working on a forum, what techniques could I use to test my CMS and soon to be forum?

Noob B will get a response more detailed than A's. B will learn quicker as he is given better resources and some more guidance.

He achieves more because he took more time to ask.

What you say is all correct, but I think it's misleading to refer to it as spoon feeding. The fact is that someone with enough devotion will undoubtedly be able to learn loads from this community and the resources available on the Internet. There is no question about that. However, the process is exponentially faster and more appealing to new users to have someone there to specifically teach them new things, rather than just answer their questions. I am still rather undecided on this because on one hand, HTS has things like lectures, missions and articles where you can learn a bunch of stuff about things you didn't know existed, and all you have to do is browse through some links. So no one here can really expect users to put in their time to help the "lazy" people who don't spend the time digging up information on what they want to learn.

The way I see it is that this whole forum is a mentor. If you have a legit question, it WILL get answered. Simple as that.

But doesn't that make it more like a Q and A service than a mentor? Again what I said before about the articles / lectures still comes in to play here (the site's not just a place to get answers to questions, but also to learn), but I think having individuals take on a pupil with specific goals in mind will result in more learning for the pupil 99% of the time.

Of course, this is all still hypothetical, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think if you believe that people will learn more with a personal mentor, the question becomes how to get the right people to want to do it. Just spitballing here, but to borrow again from that videogames site that had a tutor program I mentioned, there was a tournament at the end of the tutoring time between all of the pupils. The winning pupil got some reward, as did that pupil's mentor. This may not be applicable, but it can't hurt to suggest. Could there be some sort of time-limited pupil mission / competition at the end of a mentoring phase that tests the pupils and rewards the mentors?

The last part of this highly hypothetical and potentially erroneous post is the issue of selecting the people that deserve tutoring, should such a program exist. A large portion of the noobs who post things like "how can I hack facebook!?!?" would be wasted in a tutoring program, because they would either a) lose interest, or b) not put in the effort that the mentor puts in and consequently waste everyone's time. Some sort of serious application might help to minimize the number of "bad tutees" who get accepted, and I think a selection process should be carefully constructed if HTS ever did implement this program.

Again, I really think such a program would definitely enrich the experience here and increase the learning factor by wild proportions. Even better is that mentors get the chance to actually make a difference in the lives of the people they educate – unlike in videogames, a good portion of this community has / may one day have a job in the computer field, and the learning that could happen in a mentoring program may really make a difference in the student's ability to get a job or pursue further topics after being so well introduced. I would love to see this happen against all odds and I'm merely throwing suggestions out there in the hope that one day it can.

[kujinR]

I love this idea. I really do. The thought of having someone to actually guide you is just awesome. There is only one problem, though and it has been stated here more than once, there just aren't enough people who are interested. There would be one or two that would start something to that effect, then it just dies out. The noob project is a good example of this.

Although, it did help some of those guys to set up a website, which led to some learning.

[fashizzlepop]

What you say is all correct, but I think it's misleading to refer to it as spoon feeding.

If you aren't even asking the mentor questions you are being spoon fed. If you aren't taking the time to come up with the next step you are being spoon fed. If you want a single person to devote their time into teaching a beginner, who probably will not be passionate enough to follow through with this "hacker dream" of theirs, you are being spoon fed.

Bottom line: No one will take on the challenge of mentoring anyone else here on the forum. Not unless they become really good friends. If someone starts PMing me with very good questions and is putting in a lot of work themselves I will DEFINITELY help them out as much as I can. But, again, this is a Noob A, Noob B situation. It's survival of the fittest and Noob B is the fittest.

PS. I am sorry about the noob project. 2 AP classes plus Calculus tend to drain time. I hope to get back to you guys either as a group or on a 1-1 basis. Sorry.