The "proof" of the Christian God being fake

[sanddbox]

Well, part of the reason we don't live as long is because our diet is unhealthy. I'm not talking about the "zomg America eats too much mcdonalds!!!111" bullshit - I'm talking about the consumption of processed foods over natural foods and the effect refined food has.

I'm not saying Adam lived 900 years, because we all know the Bible is just full of stories. What I am saying, though, is that it's entirely possible that past generations lived longer. Our bodies are geared towards the foods it would find just by trying to survive in nature (generally a high protein diet, high fat, plenty of plants, and a low amount of carbohydrates), whereas now we consume foods lower in protein, still high in fat (although fat itself isn't bad for you, it's fat in the presence of a high amount of carbohydrates that kills you), and a huge amount of carbohydrates.

/food rant

[Possumdude0]

That sounds pretty good. Except that our average life expectancy has been increasing over time (as opposed to maximum life span, which has remained about the same). Sure, better medical science can explain why we live longer now. But eating a more natural diet didn't seem to help people then. I've got nothing against processed foods, although stuff like McDonald's is probably unhealthy if eaten too often (like I do).

[msbachman]

Another note: Genesis 6:3 "Then the Lord said, 'My Spirit shall not abide in [1] man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.'"

I used to think this passage meant the maximum lifespan was set at 120 years (with some individual variation). But while reading some stuff for this post I came across an alternate interpretation that the 120 years is the amount of time until the flood. I haven't given much thought to this interpretation yet, since I only just heard of it, but it is possible that my interpretation has been wrong. If someone else ever brings it up, keep this in mind.

I don't have a bible in front of me but I don't think what you're stating is possible (in reference to 120 years to the flood). The noah and ark story would have killed Adam, then still living. Of course there's no accurate datings of these things and no independent corroborative evidence to when the events may have occurred, but speaking strictly from what the book itself says, something's amiss.

And the 120 year period is a strange figure, given that evidence supports a figure of most humans living to be in their 30's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Life_expectancy_variation_over_time.

So, what we have from studies is the fact that humans of the time lived to be about 30-40. We have the bible claiming either that they SHOULD be living to 120, or that 120 is their MAX. Neither makes sense though when you consider what people believe concerning people like Noah and his (and other's) ages. We've got noah living to be about 950, Issac (180), Abraham about the same (175), etc. Check this site to verify: http://www.bibleworldhistory.com/BEgypt.htm

Something doesn't make sense there. And I'd be repeating myself one too many times saying what I feel it is.

[Possumdude0]

So, what we have from studies is the fact that humans of the time lived to be about 30-40. We have the bible claiming either that they SHOULD be living to 120, or that 120 is their MAX. Neither makes sense though when you consider what people believe concerning people like Noah and his (and other's) ages. We've got noah living to be about 950, Issac (180), Abraham about the same (175),

Well, using my old interpretation, 120 would be the maximum age. Not the average life expectancy, but the maximum life span. Which is around 120 years. But that might be coincidence.

Anyway, if the 120 year restriction does refer to life spans, then it wouldn't have applied to earlier people. God doesn't use the past-tense when He says it.

[sanddbox]

That sounds pretty good. Except that our average life expectancy has been increasing over time (as opposed to maximum life span, which has remained about the same). Sure, better medical science can explain why we live longer now. But eating a more natural diet didn't seem to help people then. I've got nothing against processed foods, although stuff like McDonald's is probably unhealthy if eaten too often (like I do).

That's because EVERYTHING is better, not just medicine. We're fed all the time, we have houses, we have sanitary conditions, we don't have bears mauling us (usually), etc. This is more proof that you're horrible at science (which makes sense, you being christian and all).

[Possumdude0]

That's because EVERYTHING is better, not just medicine. We're fed all the time, we have houses, we have sanitary conditions, we don't have bears mauling us (usually), etc.

That's fine. I'm just saying that processed foods aren't the health issue you make them out to be. A lot of food we eat today is very unhealthy, but that isn't because it's "processed". There are plenty of healthy processed foods out there.

This is more proof that you're horrible at science (which makes sense, you being christian and all).

A cheap shot and an ad hominem. What does my religion have to do with it? And why do you claim that being a Christian makes me bad at science?

[sanddbox]

That's because EVERYTHING is better, not just medicine. We're fed all the time, we have houses, we have sanitary conditions, we don't have bears mauling us (usually), etc.

That's fine. I'm just saying that processed foods aren't the health issue you make them out to be. A lot of food we eat today is very unhealthy, but that isn't because it's "processed". There are plenty of healthy processed foods out there.

This is more proof that you're horrible at science (which makes sense, you being christian and all).

A cheap shot and an ad hominem. What does my religion have to do with it? And why do you claim that being a Christian makes me bad at science?

Ad Hominems aren't always logical fallacies. Your religion has to do with your science ability in that you're believing in a religion that has tons of evidence against it. You seriously believe we are sinners because we ate an apple? I've had some bad indigestion before but never bad enough to affect all of humankind.

I'm not saying "zomg all teh processed foods are bad!!!!111" - but there is a lot of research out there suggestion that processed foods are a large part of the obesity and disease we see rampant.

[msbachman]

I try to avoid arguments that are based on things my opponents do not yet believe in. The cosmological argument I gave in previous posts is based in the Big Bang theory, which is generally accepted. That's why it's my favorite argument to start off with, because I'll have common ground. Arguing that sin has caused a degradation in creation leaves me with no common ground. Without any common ground, arguments never get anywhere at all.

This conversation (especially this quote and other things you said) actually reminds me of the strange trials of a dear friend of mine. While this is quite a detailed story I think it serves well to illustrate my point.

It was some fifteen years ago, when a mutual friend of my friend Steve, a man named Donnie, I was told presented an unusual delusion about the nature of time and space. He was a young man who attended a Catholic high school but was generally skeptical of religion in general.

As Steve told me, he was on several prescription drugs to control his delusions, but this all was for naught when by a freakish occurrence a jet engine landed on his house from above. The jet, to this day at least, was never found, and it was only by chance that he was saved by the chance of having been sleepwalking in the countryside at the time.

After this point, his delusions began to turn to outright madness. It was only at the advice of a therapist that hypnosis was attempted, and it was revealed that he had indeed discovered secret knowledge concerning the nature of space and time. After this point, he could willingly control his abilities and developed precognition to view that which was to be in the present.

I'm unclear what happened next, but I was told he discussed the nature of time and space with a man-sized sentient rabbit in a movie theater, a creature obviously divine in nature. This deity, at some point, informed him that what was to come was a global Apocalypse in 28 days. The man-rabbit pulled off his mask, and it was revealed that underneath he had received a bullet wound to the face. Though none of the disciples knew of what this meant at the time, the man-rabbit was shot in the future by donnie, and yet presented all symptoms of being shot in the future in the present.

Thankfully for us all, the world did not end at said date, but only for the actions of this courageous hero who saved us all. With his magical powers, this man was able to resurrect his deceased girlfriend (who died in a freak car accident while he and her prevented a burglary), and pilot a vehicle through a wormhole into the past. This all happened on the aforementioned 28th day.

He too did innumerable other miracles, such as torching the mansion of a child molester and flooding a school, among other things.

Then, as was foretold by the scribes, the jet engine which previously landed on an empty room now contained him, laughing hysterically and making a mockery of the notion of death.

His girlfriend was resurrected, as previously mentioned, within her former body and mind, and as such, had no recollection of said events whatsoever. And all these events happened as told to me by Steve, and I am telling them accurately to you, so that if we only have faith in him, we too may be resurrected to eternal life by learning his secret knowledge of the workings of space and time.

So, it's apparent that you're mistaken about the Big Bang and god having anything to do with this. Instead, I postulate that the proper reverence should go to this man, as well as to the mysterious Rabbit, in proportion to what is due to each. As to the creator of the earth, it could very well be that said rabbit did it, or the rabbit/man/god combination that begot him.

[Possumdude0]

Ad Hominems aren't always logical fallacies. Your religion has to do with your science ability in that you're believing in a religion that has tons of evidence against it.

There are a lot of Christians who work in scientific fields and do excellent work. Being a Christian doesn't hurt your ability to do science any more than being an atheist does.

I'm not saying "zomg all teh processed foods are bad!!!!111" - but there is a lot of research out there suggestion that processed foods are a large part of the obesity and disease
we see rampant.

Thanks for the link. It's not the best source ever, but it's enough to convince me that I was probably wrong. Processed foods r bad, mmkay?

[smittyy]

Guys, there is NO END to a Religious argument, it just goes on and on. What are most of the wars over? Religion? Hint: World War 2. Heh. Well yeah im a Christian, I don't care if people say, GODS FAKE LOSER. And they have "proof" it doesn't matter, im a born Christian, and I will stay that way for the rest of my life. Im not saying to people, SWITCH TO CHRISTIANANATY! W3 PWN ALLZ. Lol, You can believe in what you want, but I will always be Christian. Thank you.