God&Einstein: Religion vs Science

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Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science

Post by Goatboy on Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:46 pm
([msg=31453]see Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science[/msg])

faazshift wrote:... I don't agree that 'I know' contradicts faith.

faazshift wrote:... if we know something, we can't have faith.

What?
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Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science

Post by faazshift on Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:11 pm
([msg=31454]see Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science[/msg])

Well I meant if we know something by seeing solid evidence, rather than by spiritual confirmation. If you have been confirmed something by the Spirit, and you know with certainty that its true, wouldn't you consider that knowledge?
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Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science

Post by donod on Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:03 pm
([msg=31455]see Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science[/msg])

excuse me for my bad english but : what do you mean by "spirit" ?
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Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science

Post by faazshift on Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:28 pm
([msg=31456]see Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science[/msg])

donod wrote:excuse me for my bad english but : what do you mean by "spirit" ?

The 'Spirit' is the third member of the godhead (aka the Holy Ghost). In my church, at least, unlike Heavenly Father, and Jesus Christ, the Holy Ghost is a spirit, without a physical body. He is able to testify unto us of truth.
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Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science

Post by Goatboy on Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:58 pm
([msg=31457]see Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science[/msg])

faazshift wrote:Well I meant if we know something by seeing solid evidence, rather than by spiritual confirmation. If you have been confirmed something by the Spirit, and you know with certainty that its true, wouldn't you consider that knowledge?

No, I really would not. You cannot have something "confirmed" by the Spirit any more than a delusional schizophrenic can have something "confirmed" by the voices in his or her head.

See, this is what bothers me. People claim to have things revealed to them by a voice/image/dream/etc. and they take it as the absolute truth! People who are otherwise logical, intelligent individuals believe in fairy tales and superstitions.
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Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science

Post by faazshift on Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:39 pm
([msg=31458]see Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science[/msg])

Goatboy wrote:
faazshift wrote:Well I meant if we know something by seeing solid evidence, rather than by spiritual confirmation. If you have been confirmed something by the Spirit, and you know with certainty that its true, wouldn't you consider that knowledge?

No, I really would not. You cannot have something "confirmed" by the Spirit any more than a delusional schizophrenic can have something "confirmed" by the voices in his or her head.

See, this is what bothers me. People claim to have things revealed to them by a voice/image/dream/etc. and they take it as the absolute truth! People who are otherwise logical, intelligent individuals believe in fairy tales and superstitions.

Well, thats your view of it. You won't except anything as truth but what you can actually see. And a delusional schizophrenic seems hardly comparable, as they have a condition that practically guarantees delusion. How do you know that they are fairy tales and that the Spirit are all so fake if you have never really tried to gain a spiritual confirmation? If you are so set against religion, how can you ever find out for yourself whether it is true (without bias)? I have come to know for myself that my beliefs are true.
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Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science

Post by Goatboy on Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:03 pm
([msg=31459]see Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science[/msg])

I grew up Methodist. I was confirmed near the end of 10th grade, and baptized in the waters of George Lake in Spicer, Minnesota a month later during a week-long stay at Decision Hills camp. I went on a mission trip later that year to Atlanta, Georgia and helped repair an old church in a poor suburb. I have packaged food to be shipped to Uganda via Feed My Starving Children (And almost got to meet Johnny Long, but that's another story) several times.

During this whole time, I never really felt like I fit in. I didn't feel this "Light" that everyone was talking about. I never got a personal message from God. I was worried. I prayed. I didn't hear a response. There was no "revealing moment" when my eyes were opened. Life just went on. I thought I was doing something wrong, so I prayed harder. I thanked God for every little thing, from getting a good grade on a paper to recovering from a sickness. Nothing came of it.

It was about this time, in the middle of 11th grade, that I started to seriously doubt God. Why was I not getting a message? Why did it seem like random chance when things went well? Why did people die, get hurt, fall into debt, get tortured, and yet nothing was done about it? I had so many questions, yet no answers. That's when it hit me, when I finally got that "revealing moment" I had been waiting for: God probably does not exist.

Everything from that point on was clear. People suffered because of chance, or because of oppression, not because God planned it for them. I got good grades because I studied, and when I got a C or a D, it's because I slacked off. Debt was not a test of faith, it was a test of budget planning. Once I took God out of the equation, logic took over and I stopped having questions; I had answers.

So don't tell me I've never tried to gain a spiritual confirmation. Trying to do so was one of the worst times in my life, when I felt so alone, so abandoned by this "Loving God." That is why I am who I am today, and I do not regret it at all.
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Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science

Post by donod on Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:38 pm
([msg=31470]see Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science[/msg])

faazshift wrote:
donod wrote:excuse me for my bad english but : what do you mean by "spirit" ?

The 'Spirit' is the third member of the godhead (aka the Holy Ghost). In my church, at least, unlike Heavenly Father, and Jesus Christ, the Holy Ghost is a spirit, without a physical body. He is able to testify unto us of truth.

if you believe in three "gods" maybe we should change the the title again :)
and again i cant understand why some christians always think about three gods = one god even when the bible say no just as simple logic does

i know quite trollish but in non-religious forums : religion = troll generator :)

goatboy wrote:Why did people die, get hurt, fall into debt, get tortured, and yet nothing was done about it?

maybe because 'evil' only exist because 'good' exist ?
just like shadow and light ?

I got good grades because I studied, and when I got a C or a D, it's because I slacked off.

god is not your slave , even the prophets of the three holy books[i mean the most readed ones] had a work just as everyone , never saw a religion saying : "if u want to eat just pray for it" :)
and remeber some times u work as crazy with no results even if you try to do ur best [just as me on realistic 16 \(^_^)/]

ps: and debt is mostly a greed problem , think about it ;)
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Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science

Post by faazshift on Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:05 pm
([msg=31472]see Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science[/msg])

donod wrote:
faazshift wrote:
donod wrote:excuse me for my bad english but : what do you mean by "spirit" ?

The 'Spirit' is the third member of the godhead (aka the Holy Ghost). In my church, at least, unlike Heavenly Father, and Jesus Christ, the Holy Ghost is a spirit, without a physical body. He is able to testify unto us of truth.

if you believe in three "gods" maybe we should change the the title again :)
and again i cant understand why some christians always think about three gods = one god even when the bible say no just as simple logic does

Well, heres how I believe it. The godhead, Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, are 3 separate beings. The three form the godhead, but we have one God (our Heavenly Father). They are just united in purpose. I too don't understand how some find the godhead to be a single trinity. A single being with multiple personality disorder seems a bit unrealistic.
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Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science

Post by Goatboy on Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:08 pm
([msg=31473]see Re: God&Einstein: Religion vs Science[/msg])

faazshift wrote:They are just united in purpose. I too don't understand how some find the godhead as a single trinity. A single being with multiple personality disorder seems a bit unrealistic.

So the talking snake and walking on water make sense to you, but somehow the idea of a single God comprised of three separate parts is perplexing?
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