Html.... what else

[Sl0thGoodi3s]

Hello everybody I was wondering I know Html Css Xhtml Javascript and Sql what else do i need to know, And also is it imperative to know a programming language, Thanks

[thedotmaster]

Hello everybody I was wondering I know Html Css Xhtml Javascript and Sql what else do i need to know, And also is it imperative to know a programming language, Thanks

You know SQL but you don't know PHP or something?
Anyway.. I'd recommend learning Python or PHP and yes, learning a programming language is a great idea. It's fun and lets you do a lot more. Something I've been learning recently is JQuery - a javascript library for AJAX and animation etc. Interesting stuff though I've only touched the surface.
I'd get a type of Linux if I were you and learn how to use that. Linux development is so much nicer.

[Sl0thGoodi3s]

Thanks

[TheGardener]

Yeah, HTML/XHTML and CSS is not very important unless you're wanting to be a web designer. You're probably more interested in functionality and actually wanting to put your SQL knowledge to use in a web page in which you'll want to learn an actual programming language, not markup. You could start with Python as many recommend but it seems as though most who are new to programming have a much easier time learning C# in a .NET environment. The libraries are extensive and built into the framework and you don't have to worry so much about the nitty gritty. Many find it a good place to learn the basics of programming - just don't limit yourself to it in the long run.

-- Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:18 pm --

Normally I'm not an avid flag bearer for Microsoft but in this instance I'd have to recommend Visual Web Developer Express if you are interested in my previous post:

http://www.microsoft.com/express/vwd/

It's quick, easy and most importantly... FREE!

Also, as I said in my previous post - it'd be wise not to limit yourself, once you get comfortable with the methodologies and the basic idea of programming do look around at other languages, never limit yourselve - especially to MS.

[fashizzlepop]

Yeah, HTML/XHTML and CSS is not very important unless you're wanting to be a web designer. You're probably more interested in functionality and actually wanting to put your SQL knowledge to use in a web page in which you'll want to learn an actual programming language, not markup. You could start with Python as many recommend but it seems as though most who are new to programming have a much easier time learning C# in a .NET environment. .

Your post doesn't make sense... You mention Web Designing and using SQL in a web page but you don't explain how.

@op
Web Design: You would want to learn something like PHP to use in web pages. PHP is a common way to manipulate SQL databases and many sites use it.

Regular Programming: Using Visual C# and or Visual Basic are also common ways to use applications to manipulate SQL databases and or Access data.

I would suggest you figure out which way you want to go. Web design, web hacking, go with PHP. Regular application programming go ahead and look up Visual Basic, Visual C#, Python, C, C++. Those are listed in an order I figure to be simplest to start with to hardest to start with.

[TheGardener]

Your post doesn't make sense... You mention Web Designing and using SQL in a web page but you don't explain how.

There is a definite line between Web Design and Web Development - sounds like that's where our disconnect is. Web Designer - someone who is proficient at visual layout and the aesthetics of designing a site. This would be someone who's well versed in markup (HTML/XHTML) CSS, DTD's ect. A Developer is someone who's proficient in the functionality of the site – making things happen on the back end. In my example, C# and ASP.NET. PHP could be considered a rough equivalent to ASP.

Web Design: You would want to learn something like PHP to use in web pages. PHP is a common way to manipulate SQL databases and many sites use it. Regular Programming: Using Visual C# and or Visual Basic are also common ways to use applications to manipulate SQL databases and or Access data.

fashizzlepop, I'm very surprised to hear you say C# and VB are used for applications and not web. There are a lot of sites out there using C# and ASP.NET. As we move forward with technology the gap between web and your standard hardcoded desktop application is being bridged – we're getting closer to the point where there will no longer be a gap. The whole web isn't PHP and apache .htaccess … I'm hoping we can sweep that misconception under the rug.

[thedotmaster]

Pretty much any programming language can be used to generate and serve a website. For teh lulz I wrote a CGI script in Lolcode, for example.
However, unlike what TheGardener says which seems to suggest we're going towards CGI - the opposite is happening. People prefer a web orientated language with handling easily built in to work with different requests etc. CGI was the big thing, 5 years back (though that doesn't mean it still isn't used), and a number of websites had backends coded in C.
Then PHP became popular.

[TheGardener]

However, unlike what TheGardener says which seems to suggest we're going towards CGI - the opposite is happening. People prefer a web orientated language with handling easily built in to work with different requests etc. CGI was the big thing, 5 years back (though that doesn't mean it still isn't used), and a number of websites had backends coded in C.
Then PHP became popular.

No, no mention of CGI at all. I agree, PERL/ CGI was a huge thing. I actually invested in several books back when it was real hot before all the other languages came out of the woodwork. I admit I only put a few of those chapters into practice What I'm getting at is the next generation of programming languages and methodologies, the .NET generation - outside the box of PHP. Look at how popular AJAX/ATLAS has become.... even more - look at how popular Silverlight is becoming.

From a developer perspective PHP is great for freelance work - it works well with Apache, the open source communities it feeds are many which leads to a great support net... however at an enterprise level with bigger companies you will mostly see IIS and ASP.NET. Why? Because it's backed by MS and when you have a large company bringing in revenue support for the product is critical and it's more mainstream which means you're not forking over extra $$$$ for a specialist or when it comes time to hire another developer you can pull from a larger pool of developers. I have worked in a fast paced e-commerce environment where we attempted to convince "higher ups" that PHP hosted by Apache would be insanely cheaper then IIS and ASP.NET. The executives just didn't want to let go of that comfort they got from mainstream MS.

[thedotmaster]

Well if you're running C#, you're running it as CGI.
However, many major companies use Apache - it's the most popular webserver. Too many, however, waste both time and money on IIS - which is terribly unstable and insecure.
You mention AJAX and Silverlight. Silverlight is something I'd never let near my machine (I believe it's been ported, but I'm pretty sure it'll still be bloated as hell), but AJAX does have its uses.
These are allowing things to be taken from our desktops and placed in "the cloud", a move that I'm not particularly in favour of, but does have its benefits.
I would, however, stay right away from anything like .NET - it is patented and protected. Do you want someday to be told that you can't run your own code?

[TheGardener]

Well, you can use C# with CGI and some do but from my experience in the workforce C# is typically accompanied with ASP.NET. During the time of CGI I never went beyond PERL.

I agree, alot of money goes into software with overinflated licenses and EULA's. Does it make sense - No... but since when has the corporate world made sense? I'm not a flagship for MS or .NET but it has gained a lot of momentum and it is the direction the future is taking and it's definitely worth learning and understanding, especially from a security perspective. I think it also has it's uses to the beginner who's learning and it's great if you're building a wide spanning resume professionally – it has it's pros and cons which would be best described in an article or another thread of it's own. Unfortunately, .NET only works within the .NET framework and guess who controls that... regardless, it is what it is and it's worth learning. Just as RoR, PHP, Python...or anything you can get your hands on. In my humble opinion.