sins

For discussing religion and related topics.

What religion are you?

Protestant
2
33%
Catholic
0
No votes
Judaism
1
17%
Islam
0
No votes
Agnostic
2
33%
Wiccan/Pagan/Druid
0
No votes
New Age
0
No votes
Buddhism
0
No votes
Mormon
0
No votes
Seventh Day Adventist
1
17%
 
Total votes : 6

Re: sins

Post by Spectre557 on Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:38 am
([msg=26508]see Re: sins[/msg])

Defience wrote:Spectre557: can you provide some examples of the 'fun' that you're referring to?

Ok, that was a pretty general statement. :D

But to be honest, there are a hell of a lot of fun things that are sinful. I'm referring here to sins among all collective major religions:
- Sex (of any description outside of marriage, or ever with more than one person, or with a condom)
- Drugs, including alcohol and tobacco (because apparently even your own body belongs to "Him")
- Asking difficult questions about the universe
- Medicinal drugs or even general medical treatment (because if you're ill, God WANTS you to be)
- Having money
- Not having money (because you don't work)
- Masturbation
- Questioning what you are told
- Wearing nice clothes
- Wearing too few clothes
- Gambling
- Borrowing/lending money
- Being gay
- Thinking independently
- Video games
- Violent movies/TV
- Not taking care of yourself enough
- Worrying too much about yourself
- Not ignoring scientific facts
- Being attractive to the opposite sex
- Thinking about sinning
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Re: sins

Post by The7thGuest on Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:09 am
([msg=26511]see Re: sins[/msg])

For one I don't think alchohol is considered a sin in Christianity, Jesus turned water into wine?
Abusing, that's the key word and that can go to anything, even eating chocolate or shopping...

I guess we can argue all we want about religion, you won't convince me and I won't convince you, no harm done.
A sin is an act that is regarded by theologians as a transgression of God's will, since you don't believe in God you I presume it's safe to say you don't believe in sin. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

What I can say is that rules and regulations, who goes up, who goes down and why, that's honestly in my opinion a load of crap.
I don't believe for one second that someone would go to Hell for stealing a cookie from him mom's cookie jar if I forget about it and didn't beg for forgiveness.

I do believe that by the choices you make everyday you will be a good man, or not.
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Re: sins

Post by Spectre557 on Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:27 am
([msg=26514]see Re: sins[/msg])

The7thGuest wrote:For one I don't think alchohol is considered a sin in Christianity, Jesus turned water into wine?

I'll repeat:
Spectre557 wrote:I'm referring here to sins among all collective major religions


The7thGuest wrote:Abusing, that's the key word and that can go to anything, even eating chocolate or shopping...

So are you saying that none of those things I just listed are actually sinful in and of themselves?

The7thGuest wrote:I guess we can argue all we want about religion, you won't convince me and I won't convince you, no harm done.

I'm not trying to convince you, as I think that would be a fruitless exercise, but what I do want is a decent answer. I want you to properly read what I'm saying, and give me a valid answer, because I genuinely want to know what you think about it.

The7thGuest wrote:A sin is an act that is regarded by theologians as a transgression of God's will, since you don't believe in God you I presume it's safe to say you don't believe in sin. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

Absolutely correct.

The7thGuest wrote:What I can say is that rules and regulations, who goes up, who goes down and why, that's honestly in my opinion a load of crap.

Then you're not a real Christian. In order to be one, you must follow the Bible. And if the Bible says "beat your woman", you do it. Because apparently, that's the word of God. It can't be wrong, because it's "divinely inspired". You've said that some bits of the Bible are true and other bits aren't, right? Then how do you know that any of it is true? The whole point of being a Christian is to obey the Bible, the will of God, and Jesus (although they're the same person?). You can't just ignore some bits as if they don't exist and treat other bits like the absolute and infallible truth.

The7thGuest wrote:I don't believe for one second that someone would go to Hell for stealing a cookie from him mom's cookie jar if I forget about it and didn't beg for forgiveness.

Slightly off-topic here, but doesn't "begging for forgiveness" for doing something that comes naturally, seem slightly wrong? Think about it: If God is omnipotent, he controls everything. Therefore, he made you do it. He's omniscient, so he knew you were going to do it even before you were born. Yet he expects you to grovel and demean yourself for something out of your control. Even the act of repentance is completely pointless and absurd... God knows whether or not you're sorry without you doing it. And either way, he's making you do it so there's no element of actual sorriness. It would seem he does it only to enjoy watching you squirm.

The7thGuest wrote:I do believe that by the choices you make everyday you will be a good man, or not.

But if you're a good, decent person by any sane standards, who happened to masturbate when younger, will you still go to Heaven? What if you've used the brain that God gave you, examined the evidence and science that is apparently God-given, and concluded that the best way to live is as an atheist? Then will you burn in eternal torment? This God sounds like a nasty child with a magnifying glass, and we are the ants.
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Re: sins

Post by The7thGuest on Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:52 am
([msg=26517]see Re: sins[/msg])

You have to follow the Bible to be a Christian? Ofcourse that would be the Orhodox statement...
I have to disagree with this one...

I believe in God, I believe his Son, Jesus Christ was here on Earth and died. I believe people have corrupted the truth. I believe people are using religion to scare us by making us believe that worse things will happen to us than what actually will.

For me, it really is that simple.
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Re: sins

Post by Spectre557 on Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:06 am
([msg=26519]see Re: sins[/msg])

Fair enough, I won't tell what to believe and what not to. But if that's the case that you don't believe the Bible contains much truth, then I have to ask you, what evidence, at all, do you have for the existence of a God, or Jesus? Any Christian I've asked before has had to simply say "The Bible is proof for me", or "Faith makes God real", or some BS like that. What's your proof? It must be something pretty damn convincing if you choose to devote your entire life (and apparently afterlife) to servitude of "God".
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Re: sins

Post by The7thGuest on Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:28 am
([msg=26521]see Re: sins[/msg])

Spectre557 wrote:Fair enough, I won't tell what to believe and what not to. But if that's the case that you don't believe the Bible contains much truth, then I have to ask you, what evidence, at all, do you have for the existence of a God, or Jesus? Any Christian I've asked before has had to simply say "The Bible is proof for me", or "Faith makes God real", or some BS like that. What's your proof? It must be something pretty damn convincing if you choose to devote your entire life (and apparently afterlife) to servitude of "God".


I believe history, luckily the bible isn't the only book that tells us what happened during the time that Jesus was on earth. Taking the actions of people and the events around the time of Jesus' death into account, it's not a make believe story....
BC/AD is another good indicator of that.

I won't convince you, but please go take a look at the events (And please not from the bible) and tell me what you think.
Maybe there has a been a huge flaw in my logic, maybe you'll discover something even more convincing, or maybe you'l just abandon the topic and continue with your life as if this conversation never happened.

It's all up to you though
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Re: sins

Post by Spectre557 on Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:22 am
([msg=26524]see Re: sins[/msg])

The7thGuest wrote:
Spectre557 wrote:Fair enough, I won't tell what to believe and what not to. But if that's the case that you don't believe the Bible contains much truth, then I have to ask you, what evidence, at all, do you have for the existence of a God, or Jesus? Any Christian I've asked before has had to simply say "The Bible is proof for me", or "Faith makes God real", or some BS like that. What's your proof? It must be something pretty damn convincing if you choose to devote your entire life (and apparently afterlife) to servitude of "God".


I believe history, luckily the bible isn't the only book that tells us what happened during the time that Jesus was on earth. Taking the actions of people and the events around the time of Jesus' death into account, it's not a make believe story....
BC/AD is another good indicator of that.

I won't convince you, but please go take a look at the events (And please not from the bible) and tell me what you think.
Maybe there has a been a huge flaw in my logic, maybe you'll discover something even more convincing, or maybe you'l just abandon the topic and continue with your life as if this conversation never happened.

It's all up to you though

Are you saying that there's another (credible) source that suggests Jesus was the son of God and that he genuinely performed miracles? If so, please tell me where I can read this.
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Re: sins

Post by IncandescentLight on Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:23 am
([msg=26525]see Re: sins[/msg])

So, technically is not believing in God a sin? Am I going to hell for that?
Speak softly and carry a big stick -Theodore Roosevelt

http://www.rhetoricalcatch.blogspot.com
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Re: sins

Post by The7thGuest on Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:27 am
([msg=26526]see Re: sins[/msg])

I'm saying there are a lot more claims to these.

The bible is composed out of different letters and books, there are quite a few thousand more books written around the same time. They're rare and people pay out of the nose for them, the earliest edition of the bible I have was written in 1483,

I've seen a latin bible which was supposedly older, but my knowledge of old books and the latin language left me guessing more than reading.

But yes, there are way more books than just the bible about the events that occured during the time Christ died.
Some of these books were even included in the first editions of the bible but was later removed by the Church. They do not even contest the existence of said books, only that they saw no purpose in including it in the bible (Mostly because it took away quite an amount of power from them, remember the church back then still formed part of government and had political power)
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Re: sins

Post by Spectre557 on Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:53 am
([msg=26533]see Re: sins[/msg])

The7thGuest wrote:I'm saying there are a lot more claims to these.

The bible is composed out of different letters and books, there are quite a few thousand more books written around the same time. They're rare and people pay out of the nose for them, the earliest edition of the bible I have was written in 1483,

I've seen a latin bible which was supposedly older, but my knowledge of old books and the latin language left me guessing more than reading.

But yes, there are way more books than just the bible about the events that occured during the time Christ died.
Some of these books were even included in the first editions of the bible but was later removed by the Church. They do not even contest the existence of said books, only that they saw no purpose in including it in the bible (Mostly because it took away quite an amount of power from them, remember the church back then still formed part of government and had political power)

But can you give an example? I'm talking about any source completely external of the Bible. It must identify Jesus as the son of God, and that he performed the impossible.
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