What gives religious organizations the right to control us?

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Re: What gives religious organizations the right to control us?

Post by Possumdude0 on Thu May 14, 2009 7:33 pm
([msg=23730]see Re: What gives religious organizations the right to control us?[/msg])

The_Computer_Wizard wrote:See here, it is obvious person a is well aware of b's beliefs, however they are ok with living how they are.


Both person A and person B are sinners. The difference is that person B is repentant (or at least he should be), while person A is convinced he has done nothing wrong.


The_Computer_Wizard wrote:The question that i was asking was why do people insist on persisting? that they cant say "ok thats their choice" or "well thats not what i believe, but to each his own"


Christians are supposed to spread the word. Also, it would be rather heartless, if you believed someone to be condemned to hell, to not tell them when they still have a chance to be saved. There are other reasons for Christians, I'm sure, but these are the two things I consider when deciding if I should tell someone about God.

For a non-Christian perspective, I'll discuss one of my best friends, an atheist, who insists on trying to disprove my beliefs. While he has never stated his motivations out loud, from our discussions I am led to believe that he wishes to help me rise above what I have been told to believe, and to see the true world as it really is. The fact that he can't seem to accept that my belief is not based on childhood indoctrination is a matter for another discussion, and is a personal fault of his, not a fault of his world view.

The_Computer_Wizard wrote:while you say any intelligent minister would say that sins are sins and all that, there are MANY ministers that are regarded as "intelligent" that commonly speak against these issues, that even protest and feel it should be made law.


It should not be made law, unless it is in a country that is run by a religion, which is not what the United States is supposed to be. Law is rules set down by the government. I am a firm believer in the separation of church and state, and so I believe that the government should not base its laws on the morals of any one religion, but instead on what is best for its people (in a non-religious sense, most religions will make claims about what is truly best for a people, but governments shouldn't have to listen to those claims).

However, I also believe that the Bible speaks clearly against some things, such as homosexuality. While I am not against homosexuals, I am against homosexuals who claim to be good Christians, when the act of homosexuality is a sin according to Christianity.*

I have a friend who gets caught up in the issue of gay marriage. He says that civil unions are ok, but that marriage is supposed to be a holy bond between a man an a woman, according to the Bible. I like to throw back at him the argument that, by his logic, only Christians should be allowed to be married, and non-Christians should all have to get civil unions, because they aren't getting married in the sense of the Christian Bible. So while I believe that homosexuality is a sin, and that gay marriage is therefor wrong, I don't think that it should be illegal, because the law of the government should not be forced to comply with the law of God. Why do I think that way?

This goes back to the childhood indoctrination issue that my atheist friend likes to bring up. We are put here in order to make the choice to follow God or not. If the government tells us what to believe, have we really made our own choice? How many people would truly believe? For most of my life I doubted my faith without realizing it. It wasn't until the atheist friend I keep mentioning began challenging me that I began to truly think about my beliefs. I was indoctrinated to Christianity as a child, and because of that I never truly believed, I just went through the motions. If I wasn't living in a culture where people could challenge my beliefs, I never would have looked at them seriously, and I would have gone through the motions all the way to hell.

The_Computer_Wizard wrote:But what im saying is theres a difference between teaching and force feeding


Yes, a big difference. When you force-feed something to someone, you either drive them away, or convince them to lie to you just so you'll go away. When you teach you help to show them knowledge that they are seeking. I'm against force-feeding simply because I believe we are all supposed to make our own choice in whether we will follow God or not.

DenyTheTruth wrote:It's a mixture of both and allows for his infinite wisdom and our ability to choose. I honestly believe there is no other possibility due to what we believe about God. So, in my logic, God intended for this path to be allowed, but not to be chosen. Therefore, unintended.


While I'm not sure about the specifics of your belief, I do agree that God allows us many paths, and we must choose which one to follow.

radicool_systemite wrote:we have the authority to point out things like greed, hypocrisy, and hate


I would say we not only have the authority, but the moral responsibility. The important thing is to remember that we are supposed to point it out, not to better ourselves, but to give the greedy, hypocritical, or hateful person the chance to better themselves. There is no point in telling someone that they are greedy if they already know that they are greedy and that greed is wrong, it only serves to give the appearance of a "holier-than-thou" attitude.

radicool_systemite wrote:Why are you challenging, right now?


He isn't, he's asking for our motivations. If he was challenging (in the sense that he is using the word), then he would be trying to make us stop, instead he is only asking why.

radicool_systemite wrote:I think compwiz is asking about where the line between the two is drawn


I draw the line at whether or not the person is interested in listening to me.


* Reading through this thread has led me to think that maybe the Bible does no condemn homosexuality as harshly as I had thought. I'll have to do some reading and discussing on this subject. Thanks for convincing me to take another look at this issue, guys, even if you didn't mean to do it.


EDIT:

This grew into a very long post... it wasn't meant to be half this size when I started it. Sorry guys.
Posts on the subjects of religion or morality are from a Christian's perspective

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Possumdude0
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