Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?

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Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?

Post by Charlieace on Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:54 pm
([msg=20227]see Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?[/msg])

Utopia, Perfectionism, Are You For It or Against It? Are You For The Means To Achieve It?

Utopia: A perfect society without violence or trouble.


There have been countless Utopians throughout the years while they have been called ironic and hypocrites, and their means to achieve a perfect society have varied throughout the years. Heres a list off the top of my head:
Dali Liama :)
Adolph Hitler :evil:
Lee Harvey Oswald :evil:
Etc, Etc.

What do you think about a Utopia and the means of which to achieve it? The U.S Government strives for a Utopia, and they have murdered over it. Ironically, many means of achieving a Utopia involve violence itself, killing thousands, even millions.

So do you agree with me, and think its a load of crap, or do you think its a good idea.
In some versions of a Utopia, however, hacking would be no more. Consider that.

-cHarLie aCe

edit: i'm hurt, no replies. ha.
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Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?

Post by bearhunta on Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:17 pm
([msg=21906]see Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?[/msg])

Become a taoist and realize the nature of reality.

Without little there can be no big

Without loud there can be no quiet

Without sadness there can be no happiness

How would one phase out violence? You can't. You can only minimize it, and of course, the best way would be without being a hypocrite as in using it (force) yourself. So, tell me, what system increases peace without the use of force?
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Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?

Post by cheezefriez on Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:28 pm
([msg=21908]see Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?[/msg])

Bearhunta took the most serious point right out of my mouth.
But to add to it, if things were perfect, life would be boring.
If things were violent, which they are, life would be hell.
The key is to balance it out.

There will always be humans that just feel like doing terrible things.
It's the way the world works.
But still, people should only use force if they've literally tried everything else.

I'm against trying to make things what they aren't.
As I like to say, perfection is imperfection.
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Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?

Post by Superbored21 on Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:01 pm
([msg=21912]see Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?[/msg])

I'm not for perfectionism. Never will be. It's like trying to achieve immortality. Perhaps science can extend our lives by very much, but it will never be perfect. Even if a Utopia were ever to rise, I doubt it would last long.

I'm all for finding a perfect balance, though. A perfect balance between good and evil. Between authoritarianism and anarchism. Conservatism and liberalism. Sanity and insanity. Capitalism and socialism. I think you all get the point. It makes sense, really; the Chinese (If there were others, I apologize, they are the only ones that currently come to mind) have believed in the power and potential of a good balance for more than a thousand years.
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Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?

Post by dev_urandom on Fri May 08, 2009 6:20 pm
([msg=23417]see Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?[/msg])

Perfectionism is, by definition, impossible. You just cannot make it "right" for every single human that exists.

You can create the illusion of perfection by censure, making war on other states to create you own "utopian state", but you will never be able to please everyone.

Utopia = you can lie in your bed all day, be lazy, have people come serve you food, go on the streets and kill someone for fun and get away with it, own all the gold in the world, etc. etc.

Just... No. Of course, it would be awesome if it would exist. But until this world ends, it'll stay a nice pipe dream by John Lennon. "Imagine all the people...".

EDIT: That reminds me: When the Europeans first arrived in Japan and China, they believed it to be Utopian. Interesting.
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Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?

Post by Heath Winchester on Sat May 16, 2009 6:29 pm
([msg=23829]see Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?[/msg])

Isn't Utopia more of an opinionated scenario. None of us envision a perfect world the same way. For instance, I see a perfect world as something like what happens once yo get out of the Matrix. I've always been attracted to that sort of world. A world full of warriors and a huge cause to fight for. Or look at the Joker's view of a perfect world. Absolute chaos. Everyones view is different.
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Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?

Post by zenithSmil3 on Sun May 17, 2009 12:16 am
([msg=23836]see Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?[/msg])

I see two perfect worlds.

One of them is a perfect utopia. However, do the ends justify the means to achieve such a thing? I liken such a utopia to what was going on in Lois Lowry's The Giver. Nobody suffered, everybody was well fed and I suppose they all believed themselves happy. They did not have free will, free speech, everybody was equal. They had no knowledge of the outside world. They did not know war, disease and death. However, they also did not know about other things such as animals and love. So, I figure that ignorance is happiness and the ignorance of the people can pretty much guarantee the happiness provided they do not have curiousity as well.

The second "utopia" is less perfect than the one illustrated above. It is basically knowledge and knowing what is happening. Knowledge can pretty much aid in misery when you find out things you never wanted to know. However, its perfectly possible to be happy being miserable, if that made any sense to you at all. XD

I'm for perfectionism.
Meh.
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Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?

Post by nosidius on Sun May 17, 2009 6:40 pm
([msg=23858]see Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?[/msg])

if a utopia is defined as a perfect land, then it's impossible because humans can never agree on what is perfect. it is a "perfect to me" scenario no matter what. and you must take into account how the utopia would work, is there a benevolent king/queen? is there a president? or a tribunal, or any other kind of gov. at what point can gov step into an issue (such as eco crisis) and crack down on them, or would the whole point be to never have that be the case? how can you maintain it with the variables, especially those such as our diminishing lead supplies (they're the main component of battery acid) or the amount of oil/land/space etc.
give me knowledge or give me death
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Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?

Post by zenithSmil3 on Tue May 19, 2009 4:02 am
([msg=23913]see Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?[/msg])

nosidius wrote:if a utopia is defined as a perfect land, then it's impossible because humans can never agree on what is perfect. it is a "perfect to me" scenario no matter what. and you must take into account how the utopia would work, is there a benevolent king/queen? is there a president? or a tribunal, or any other kind of gov. at what point can gov step into an issue (such as eco crisis) and crack down on them, or would the whole point be to never have that be the case? how can you maintain it with the variables, especially those such as our diminishing lead supplies (they're the main component of battery acid) or the amount of oil/land/space etc.


I think its more about whether you are for or against a utopia/perfectionism as a purely hypothetical scenario.
Meh.
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Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?

Post by Laozi on Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:38 pm
([msg=25362]see Re: Utopia, Perfectionism, are you For It or Against It?[/msg])

I agree with bearhunta's point but would like to expand upon it to say that a Utopian society is possible from a governmental sense of view with everyone being equal. If the world did have a universal revolt to create a communist society then money could be abolished and then all could be equal as no one would be richer than another and, as it would be a world wide(and for arguments sake) and majority revolt then minimal force by the government as the people would naturally kill the rebels, and then the extremists would be in position to brainwash the people into loving/fearing/respecting the communist power and the Utopian society would continue until the leader dies without a replacement and nobody would be authorized so anyone who took power would be killed for it and then it would slowly spiral into anarchy or dictatorship and lose the Utopian ideals
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