Communism

by **DaKatt** on Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:12 pm ([msg=4467]see Re: Communism[/msg])

I'm not communist, I'm Marxist. One day I hope WE will live in a communist society free from the wasteful and discriminate actions of our ruling class. But how? Humans are selfish you say, human nature blah blah blah. Unless you're one of these anti evolutionaries (in which case I won't even waste the springs of my keyboard trying to convince you god ain't there) then you need to check what you believe. Man like all living things does what? EVOLVE. What shapes our evolution? OUR SURROUNDINGS. And what now shapes our surroundings more than anything else in the modern world? OURSELVES. To say man will forever be selfish is to comletely deviate from reality. If it is nessecary for man to be self centred it is a result of the suroundings he finds himself in. The opposite CAN be achieved. Make cooperatation and selflessness nessecary to survive and you will have communism.

Except social darwanisim has been discredited for over 100 years =\

Even if you didn't know that, it's intuitive. Do kind parents have kind kids? Can people be kind or mean at different stages of their life(does their temperment age?)? I think this proves that even without biology knowledge, the answer is obvious.

I think it is a nice thought, to have a society where everyone loves one another, but it's impossible. People, such as myself, think this not because we aren't critical thinkers, or beause we're too closed minded and can't see the society you invision, it's not because we're cold and callous; it's because we have thought about it a lot--it's because we are logical, and all ideas must be backed up with facts. Things like 'love' are not passed down through our genes. Given that, an environment where everyone is selfish is not going to happen. This implies a lot more than that actually-- that society will never change.

Also there is more to the failure of communisim than just the human element. There are limited resources which are INDIVISIBLE. The truth is that this WORLD is not fair, even if the people are.

by **OneArrow** on Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:49 pm ([msg=4666]see Re: Communism[/msg])

TheMindRapist wrote:In a world like that would government even be necessary?
Communism is a great theory, but it is impossible to implement due to human nature.

Impossible on any reasonably large scale, absolutely. But I'd be interested to see if it works on a much smaller scale.

Simply communism does not fit human nature.
There are always going to be those who work harder, and those who "doss off".
Capitalism does not have to be the evil it is today. If I make, for example, a computer and I put a lot of effort into it and then I sell it for £600 then isn't it fair that I make a profit and that I make money? If the consumer decides that £600 is too much, then fair enough.
Now as soon as I start ripping off the people who make the microchips, paying them fook all etc - that's when capitalism turns bad.
But every human has a little bit of capitalism inside them - we want to make something using our skills.
Abusing others however is wrong but communism is simply not for humans.

thedotmaster wrote:Simply communism does not fit human nature.
There are always going to be those who work harder, and those who "doss off".
Capitalism does not have to be the evil it is today. If I make, for example, a computer and I put a lot of effort into it and then I sell it for £600 then isn't it fair that I make a profit and that I make money? If the consumer decides that £600 is too much, then fair enough.
Now as soon as I start ripping off the people who make the microchips, paying them fook all etc - that's when capitalism turns bad.
But every human has a little bit of capitalism inside them - we want to make something using our skills.
Abusing others however is wrong but communism is simply not for humans.

Then does capitalism not fit human nature as well ? If we can rip off the microchip maker. either way your looking at a mans morale values. All government can be destroyed or kept alive if we so choose.

by **nosidius** on Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:59 pm ([msg=10946]see Re: Communism[/msg])

communism will ultimately be the only way to control humanity............. democracies begin falling apart as soon as the population begins increasing, as well as a continually changing government ruled by multiple people cannot follow through on long term projects, making communism better in that respect, however as said, communism does have it's down sides...... however, if someone could propose a form of communism that works.......... i'd be all for it (as far as we're concerned (here in America) it might as well be communism, it's almost always a bush or a Clinton)

nosidius wrote:if someone could propose a form of communism that works..........

Communism is flawed by its very nature. It doesn't work.

Communism is something that I have been fascinated by for a very long time. Having a fully functioning communist government without the humanity which holds it back would be pure bliss. All would be perfect. However, as they say, it's too good to be true. Socialism seems like a good idea to me, though.

I don't know why Communism is so antagonized by the west, though. Is it just propaganda?

i'm american, and i believe democracies are shit, look at us now.............. we fell apart as soon as we started having 3 cents more on gas............ i know it adds up, but it's kinda ridiculous.............. i'm saddened by my own nation >.>

and the kinds of communism we've seen so far ARE flawed, however, the idea is to make a form of it that works (not necessarily the same damn thing, because as you said, it DOESN'T work in it's current state)

nosidius wrote:i'm american, and i believe democracies are shit, look at us now.............. we fell apart as soon as we started having 3 cents more on gas............ i know it adds up, but it's kinda ridiculous.............. i'm saddened by my own nation >.>

and the kinds of communism we've seen so far ARE flawed, however, the idea is to make a form of it that works (not necessarily the same damn thing, because as you said, it DOESN'T work in it's current state)

No, really, the idea is flawed. It's not just the implementations. It's the idea, the concept.
Communism is not human nature. Capitalism is.
If a man makes a table, it is fair enough he wants to make money for making that table.
Karl Marx was wrong - when the owner of a factory is 'ripping-off' his workers, he is reaping the rewards of his investment, an investment that will have taken skill to pull off. Sure he does abuse his workers, and that isn't good and they are being ripped off to an extent in that way, but Karl Marx says that no matter how well the workers are paid, if the manager makes a profit then the workers are being ripped-off. That is not true.

EDIT: Please could you also use proper English and grammar?