HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by fashizzlepop on Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:11 pm
([msg=52587]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

Wow, I never thought this thread would get so much attention. Just goes to show how much is wrong with HTS.

I don't see why we need a new blog system when we a perfectly good front page. More users will notice it on the front page and will realize HTS is not completely dead, only in a coma.

There is nothing wrong with scrapping work if there is a better solution that will save time in the end. Why dig the hole any deeper? So far Wells has had all valid points. There is no reason for a total recode.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by Brendan2011 on Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:19 pm
([msg=52594]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

Kage wrote:4) When Bren returns from idle, this is something I'm likely to fix later. I'd like to get Redmine operational, which will solve several issues you and others have about transparency, update tracking, documentation, wikis, and discussion forums.


Not so much idle, as busy as to why I actually haven't been coding recently. My todo is usually pretty short, but I've got too much school work right now. Just like the bastards to hold back for a semester and pile it all up at once...

Kage wrote:Actually, the blog system should be done, and I'll slap Bren if he's still focusing on that over more important issues. In reality, all it ought to really be is a news post or article post system with commenting enabled. Anything more and we're duplicating resources unnecessarily. The blog system is for staff to post frequently about the current state of affairs within HackThisSite. It is meant to offer another layer of transparency to HTS by allowing users the opportunity to see what we're doing at the moment.


I haven't been doing much on the blogs other than using it as intended for the past few days... I should (and probably could) finish up the todo soon.

Wells wrote:PS: I see a "Blog" link next to people's names here on the forums. Couldn't we just use that?


1.) The satirical attitude makes your ideas less appealing.
2.) Monica has fucked up forum permissions so that normal users can't view blogs and is too lazy to fix them.

fashizzlepop wrote:Wow, I never thought this thread would get so much attention. Just goes to show how much is wrong with HTS.

I don't see why we need a new blog system when we a perfectly good front page. More users will notice it on the front page and will realize HTS is not completely dead, only in a coma.

There is nothing wrong with scrapping work if there is a better solution that will save time in the end. Why dig the hole any deeper? So far Wells has had all valid points. There is no reason for a total recode.


The front page is for important news. Not for spamming it with "Dev Blog #573782 - Comments Added!", "Dev Blog #573783 - Comments Fixed!", etc.

Paul Butterworth wrote:
“Where the heck were you when the page was blank?”

Wells cannot come in any time he pleases and expect us to bow to his clearly superior ideas.

What Wells doesn't know, is that all the code he has WAS trashed. Imo, Thetan was recoding the problem already in place (as far as the code running on the framework goes). Therefore, I'd appreciate it if he'd stop making assumptions on matters he has no intel on.

fashizzlepop wrote:There is nothing wrong with scrapping work if there is a better solution that will save time in the end. Why dig the hole any deeper? So far Wells has had all valid points. There is no reason for a total recode.


Why the hell not? If every developer in the world just imported the same framework, site performance becomes standard instead of developers making a constant effort to outdo the previous with better code to solve more complex problems.

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If Facebook simply used MySQL and said 'oh well', they would not have written Cassandra, which is the only way they could bare the rapid growth and distrobution of the information in their database.

If the developers of CodeIgniter didn't make what they did because CakePHP already existed, this debate wouldn't be going on.

If Google didn't write Bigtable to deal with the petabytes of data they store, do you think we would even have Google?

Now, I understand that I just mentioned a bunch of companies, but I find that irrelevant. Were they not groups of people with a problem and the skills to solve it?
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by fashizzlepop on Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:53 pm
([msg=52595]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

I like how you gave a graph with seemingly made up numbers and no fucking axis labels.

CodeIgniter set out to make building a fast and lightweight framework as their primary objective. HTS' main objective is to get content out to the users. Our objective is NOT to waste time building another framework that does the same stuff only slightly faster (maybe). HTS and CodeIgniter seems like a perfect match.

Also, about the blog, why are you going to be spending time on blog software if all your posts are going to be lame ass "Ooh, shiny new comments now... lololol." Sounds fucking pointless to me.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by Brendan2011 on Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:04 pm
([msg=52596]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

fashizzlepop wrote:I like how you gave a graph with seemingly made up numbers and no fucking axis labels.

Yes, Thetan made that a long time ago and I saved it. I believe the Y axis is operations per second, and the X is... well, you should be able to tell.

fashizzlepop wrote:CodeIgniter set out to make building a fast and lightweight framework as their primary objective. HTS' main objective is to get content out to the users. Our objective is NOT to waste time building another framework that does the same stuff only slightly faster (maybe). HTS and CodeIgniter seems like a perfect match.


That is HTS's objective. The Recode's objective is to make a site that is fast, easy to use, and maintainable. Please stop confusing the two.

fashizzlepop wrote:Also, about the blog, why are you going to be spending time on blog software if all your posts are going to be lame ass "Ooh, shiny new comments now... lololol." Sounds fucking pointless to me.

You'd rather me defile the home page with that lame ass stuff? I mean, I'd be happy to.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by fashizzlepop on Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:16 pm
([msg=52598]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

So you just go around posting graphs that you don't even know what information they present? Sounds like a good idea to me.

The <bold><italic>Recode</italic></bold> is part of HTS. Don't be a dev for HTS if your not working for HTS.

You misunderstood me. I am saying, that nobody needs to hear about every little update that is made, and it sure as hell does not need to be displayed in a shiny, time expensive manner. Use the front page for weekly updates that are informative and keep the users alive and around.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by Brendan2011 on Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:28 pm
([msg=52601]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

@fashizzlepop - I sense some hostility. o.0

fashizzlepop wrote:So you just go around posting graphs that you don't even know what information they present? Sounds like a good idea to me.


Oh, so... explaining what the graph means somehow displays that I don't understand what it's presenting? Won't do that again.

fashizzlepop wrote:The <bold><italic>Recode</italic></bold> is part of HTS. Don't be a dev for HTS if your not working for HTS.


Your argument is void considering that the current site is '[getting] content out to the users.' The recode is so that it may do it's job more efficiently. You seem to think that the recode not being finished hinders this.

fashizzlepop wrote:You misunderstood me. I am saying, that nobody needs to hear about every little update that is made, and it sure as hell does not need to be displayed in a shiny, time expensive manner. Use the front page for weekly updates that are informative and keep the users alive and around.


Nobody is doing so. There two posts about the recode on it, and one's addressing concerns in this thread. There was been plenty recently added to the recode that I could blog about, but do you see it? No. Of course you don't. Why would I post a blog for every feature? That's silly.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by Kage on Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:00 pm
([msg=52602]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

Defience wrote:Kage.....Wells is obviously all for HTS using codeigniter and he's made some interesting arguments as to why. I am curious as to what you feel the cons are of it and why it's better that we build from the ground up.

fashizzlepop wrote:There is nothing wrong with scrapping work if there is a better solution that will save time in the end. Why dig the hole any deeper? So far Wells has had all valid points. There is no reason for a total recode.


It's not as if there is no code done for Recode. The frame work is [essentially] done. What we are doing now is creating the parts that plug into it, ie. articles, news, missions, comments, et al. Sure, CodeIgniter has some of these, but we opted for our own system because it presents two important things:

1) We know it, line for line, to operate exactly how we need and as secure as we detail it.
2) We are not relying on others, we can customize it or change it however we desire and not worry about "how are we going to upgrade it?" like the problem we have with these forums.

Now, keep in mind, our framework is basically done. To do the work needed to convert from our MVC to CodeIgniter, we would have to scrap everything and rewrite a fuckton of stuff. Further, Wells keeps talking of "CodeIgniter does badass DB shit!", well that's cool, except we're not using MySQL, at all. CodeIgniter has no provisions for MongoDB, LDAP, or anything else that we're already provisioned for.

Now, I'm not saying CodeIgniter is a bad tool. It's an awesome framework, and very good for what it's designed to do. However, we're now too far in and have too much work accomplished to say, "Fuck it, start over."

Like I told Wells earlier, if he wants us to use CodeIgniter that badly, then take what we've done thus far, port it into CodeIgniter, and show us why, with code, we should switch. Not that this would guarantee we'd switch, but sitting here bitching about the same damn thing for three fucking weeks has not convinced anyone to switch and will continue to not convince anyone.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by Defience on Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:15 pm
([msg=52603]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

Kage wrote:
Defience wrote:Kage.....Wells is obviously all for HTS using codeigniter and he's made some interesting arguments as to why. I am curious as to what you feel the cons are of it and why it's better that we build from the ground up.

fashizzlepop wrote:There is nothing wrong with scrapping work if there is a better solution that will save time in the end. Why dig the hole any deeper? So far Wells has had all valid points. There is no reason for a total recode.


It's not as if there is no code done for Recode. The frame work is [essentially] done. What we are doing now is creating the parts that plug into it, ie. articles, news, missions, comments, et al. Sure, CodeIgniter has some of these, but we opted for our own system because it presents two important things:

1) We know it, line for line, to operate exactly how we need and as secure as we detail it.
2) We are not relying on others, we can customize it or change it however we desire and not worry about "how are we going to upgrade it?" like the problem we have with these forums.

Now, keep in mind, our framework is basically done. To do the work needed to convert from our MVC to CodeIgniter, we would have to scrap everything and rewrite a fuckton of stuff. Further, Wells keeps talking of "CodeIgniter does badass DB shit!", well that's cool, except we're not using MySQL, at all. CodeIgniter has no provisions for MongoDB, LDAP, or anything else that we're already provisioned for.

Now, I'm not saying CodeIgniter is a bad tool. It's an awesome framework, and very good for what it's designed to do. However, we're now too far in and have too much work accomplished to say, "Fuck it, start over."

Like I told Wells earlier, if he wants us to use CodeIgniter that badly, then take what we've done thus far, port it into CodeIgniter, and show us why, with code, we should switch. Not that this would guarantee we'd switch, but sitting here bitching about the same damn thing for three fucking weeks has not convinced anyone to switch and will continue to not convince anyone.


Thanks for the reply...makes sense. I guess as a hacking community it also looks better that all of the coding was done from HTS members.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by fashizzlepop on Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:43 pm
([msg=52606]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

Kage wrote:
Defience wrote:Kage.....Wells is obviously all for HTS using codeigniter and he's made some interesting arguments as to why. I am curious as to what you feel the cons are of it and why it's better that we build from the ground up.

fashizzlepop wrote:There is nothing wrong with scrapping work if there is a better solution that will save time in the end. Why dig the hole any deeper? So far Wells has had all valid points. There is no reason for a total recode.


It's not as if there is no code done for Recode. The frame work is [essentially] done. What we are doing now is creating the parts that plug into it, ie. articles, news, missions, comments, et al. Sure, CodeIgniter has some of these, but we opted for our own system because it presents two important things:

1) We know it, line for line, to operate exactly how we need and as secure as we detail it.
2) We are not relying on others, we can customize it or change it however we desire and not worry about "how are we going to upgrade it?" like the problem we have with these forums.

Now, keep in mind, our framework is basically done. To do the work needed to convert from our MVC to CodeIgniter, we would have to scrap everything and rewrite a fuckton of stuff. Further, Wells keeps talking of "CodeIgniter does badass DB shit!", well that's cool, except we're not using MySQL, at all. CodeIgniter has no provisions for MongoDB, LDAP, or anything else that we're already provisioned for.

Now, I'm not saying CodeIgniter is a bad tool. It's an awesome framework, and very good for what it's designed to do. However, we're now too far in and have too much work accomplished to say, "Fuck it, start over."

Like I told Wells earlier, if he wants us to use CodeIgniter that badly, then take what we've done thus far, port it into CodeIgniter, and show us why, with code, we should switch. Not that this would guarantee we'd switch, but sitting here bitching about the same damn thing for three fucking weeks has not convinced anyone to switch and will continue to not convince anyone.
This argument makes sense. I'm glad that got clarified.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by sanddbox on Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:55 pm
([msg=52607]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

Kage wrote:1) You're not in any of the ones we're actively discussing projects in, at least not when I'm present (which is frequent and random between 9am and 10pm EST). If there's a time you want to specifically meet with me, let me know, you have methods to contact me. And Dec 2nd? Dude, we talked 4 or 5 days ago.


Uh, what? I'm in #modtalk, #mods, and #comdev, which are all of the moderator staff channels. I have no idea what other channels you would want me to join (except for #devtalk, which I don't have access to).

Also, can I have some actual reasons as to why financial transparency without being a nonprofit is bad?
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