HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by Monica on Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:13 am
([msg=52913]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

Welcome back, Wells, my love.
hi am new so plz dont troll me or i report 2 the HTS mods ty
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by Wells on Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:12 am
([msg=52954]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

Just so people know how doomed the HTS recode really is, the current recode site takes over 20 seconds to load a basic mission page.

Page Executed In: 21.73s


Why? Because bren is a 14 year old inexperienced developer. Every time you load a mission page he queries every single user for mission completion. There are thousands of users so naturally this takes a huge amount of time.

If he can't even figure out basic database operations, I dread to think what the rest of the code looks like.

"But wait, I thought they are using a special hand-coded MVC framework which is really fast?"

"Oh, you mean to tell me the framework speed is never the bottleneck in a web application? And that database operations are where you should focus your attention? Gee, maybe Wells was right after all...."

No shit.

-- Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:17 am --

Additionally, after doing the POST to log in to the site, Bren does not perform a 302/303 redirect after the operation. This is really standard web development stuff here folks. You should always redirect after a POST to prevent the user resubmitting and to make sure the back button works properly and skips the POST itself.

Again, this is the sort of fundamental stuff I would expect any competent developer to know about.

-- Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:23 am --

Even my user profile page, with a single comment:

Page Executed In: 5.801s


I really cannot understand how it can take that long to perform the request and serve up the page. I actually cannot begin to imagine what the code/database is doing.

I guess this is what happens when you choose NoSQL for no good reason and the developers have no idea how to use it effectively.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by Vulpine on Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:06 am
([msg=52965]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

Is this how you get your ideas heard at work? The thing is... I swear you used the word professional to describe yourself.

You call it "offering suggestions". What you fail to see is that regardless of how much merit your ideas may actually have, they don't get any serious attention because of how you present them. All 76 professional software developers that I work with know how to get their ideas heard in a manner that people will actually listen to.

Instead of attacking Bren, offering bitchy criticisms, and having a fucking attitude, why don't you take a deep breath and apply for a dev position? If you're willing to work with people, they tend to be far more receptive to what you have to say.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by Kage on Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:11 am
([msg=52966]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

Vulpine wrote:Is this how you get your ideas heard at work? The thing is... I swear you used the word professional to describe yourself.

You call it "offering suggestions". What you fail to see is that regardless of how much merit your ideas may actually have, they don't get any serious attention because of how you present them. All 76 professional software developers that I work with know how to get their ideas heard in a manner that people will actually listen to.

Instead of attacking Bren, offering bitchy criticisms, and having a fucking attitude, why don't you take a deep breath and apply for a dev position? If you're willing to work with people, they tend to be far more receptive to what you have to say.


This post got me so hard I want to give you an open-mouth kiss.

Also, concerning the third point, it's "not worth [his] time," as quoted. Unless we conform to his ideals and use only the suggestions he submits and approves of, he's not interested. He's made this evidently clear, and even said exactly this before.

<HG> if you're not going to use my ideas, then i want nothing to do with this project
<HG> plain and simple, writing your own CMS is the most retarded thing anyone could ever do
<HG> just use codeigniter and be done with it ffs


(@Wells) And, to be honest, criticizing us for poor code that has really only just been developed is poor form. There are many, many times where I approach a problem in a two-step process: 1) Make it work; 2) Make it work well. The first step is just an experimental process to find functional (but not yet necessarily efficient) approaches, the second involves taking those successful attempts and cleaning them into something efficient. Ever stopped to consider perhaps what Bren is doing is just that first step?
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by 0xBEEF1337 on Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:37 am
([msg=52968]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

Delete.
Last edited by 0xBEEF1337 on Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by Vulpine on Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:09 pm
([msg=52973]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

0xBEEF1337 wrote:Quit addressing the bitchfest and your personal experiences or you won't stay on topic.


You're right, of course, and I do apologize for addressing it in that capacity.

Not possessing the knowledge or experience to contribute on a development level, I'm going to crawl back into my lurking hole and focus on refining a few ideas for generating/encouraging community content.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by Wells on Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:08 pm
([msg=52982]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

Kage wrote:
<HG> if you're not going to use my ideas, then i want nothing to do with this project
<HG> plain and simple, writing your own CMS is the most retarded thing anyone could ever do
<HG> just use codeigniter and be done with it ffs


Kage, those logs are fake. I don't use the nick "HG" only "HG`" and I even grepped my xchat logs to make doubly sure. I'm actually surprised you would fake logs so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume someone else sent them to you.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by sanddbox on Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:26 pm
([msg=52987]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

Wells wrote:
Kage wrote:
<HG> if you're not going to use my ideas, then i want nothing to do with this project
<HG> plain and simple, writing your own CMS is the most retarded thing anyone could ever do
<HG> just use codeigniter and be done with it ffs


Kage, those logs are fake. I don't use the nick "HG" only "HG`" and I even grepped my xchat logs to make doubly sure. I'm actually surprised you would fake logs so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume someone else sent them to you.


In Kage's defense, it's likely those were logs edited by Bren. There have been similar scenarios in the past.

However, even if the logs were true it strikes me as much more of an ad hominem attack than a valid argument anyway.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by Kage on Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:38 pm
([msg=52988]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

I'm pretty certain those logs aren't fake. And you have gone by "HG" in the past, I think only a month ago or less did you start going by HG`. They're from some month or more ago. They were pasted to me a couple weeks ago, yes, but not by Bren. And don't ask, because I'm not going to name who just so you can start bitching at them.

In any case, you've made it clear before that you will not do any work at all on Recode unless we scrap our "CMS". That is the point I've been trying to make, that until we conform to your will, you won't do anything, but you do repeatedly demand the source.
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Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking

Post by Wells on Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:07 am
([msg=52995]see Re: HTS Needs to Stop Sucking[/msg])

Kage wrote:I'm pretty certain those logs aren't fake. And you have gone by "HG" in the past, I think only a month ago or less did you start going by HG`. They're from some month or more ago. They were pasted to me a couple weeks ago, yes, but not by Bren. And don't ask, because I'm not going to name who just so you can start bitching at them.


I don't want to start getting in a huge argument over logs now, but I have had my IRC client set to use the nick "HG`" with "HG``" as an alternative for as long as I can remember now.

Also the language in the supposed logs aren't what I would say. "Plain and simple" isn't a phrase I use, and saying "if you're not going to use my ideas, then i want nothing to do with this project" is also not what I would say, and not how I think at all. It's clearly from weekend or bren who completely misunderstand where I'm coming from. That makes it sound like I have a superiority complex and everyone else is wrong unless they use my ideas. That's not how I think and I would not write that.

I simply think the HTS project would be better served by not reinventing the wheel. These are not my ideas, they are basic common sense and good software development and project management. I don't go about thinking my ideas are the best, and that everyone else is wrong if they don't listen to me.

Anyway, as I said in the thread earlier I will try and let you continue the way you are going without any more complaining (about the technology choices at least). I just couldn't help posting about the ridiculous page loading times and the terrible handling of POSTs. Since you refuse to let me perform code reviews I post on the forums, I think it's important for these bugs and issues to be discussed.
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