What do you believe in?

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Re: What do you believe in?

Post by Skiddie Killer on Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:14 am
([msg=40494]see Re: What do you believe in?[/msg])

Goatboy wrote:Skiddie, you seem to contradict yourself, as many religious people do. You say you support and believe in every word of the Qur'an (Bible, Torah, etc.) but you also twist the meaning to match today's morals and social norms. This is not how religion works. You either believe it all, or none of it. It's not a pick-and-choose buffet. This is one of my biggest pet-peeves.

Please explain this to me.What have I twisted?
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Re: What do you believe in?

Post by Goatboy on Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:41 am
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Skiddie Killer wrote:Of course,I don't support pedophilia,but back then something like this was acceptable and considered normal.

It just seems to me like you're making exceptions here. Saying it was okay back then but is illegal now is more of a matter of law than of belief. If the Qur'an says it's okay, and if your Prophet had a wife of 9 years of age, and if you believe every word of the Qur'an, then you should think it's okay to have a wife of age 9. Personal beliefs and government laws should have no authority over your religious beliefs. Interpreting any holy text to fit today's world is the rough equivalent of saying the authors screwed up.
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Re: What do you believe in?

Post by sanddbox on Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:48 am
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More importantly, you're saying that the Qur'an isn't the holy word of God, but written by people that just fucked up. Are God's values supposed to change over time? Without a direct word from God about an issue, what's printed in the Qur'an is what you should be believing. You're instead ignoring what the Qur'an says because "things were different back then".
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Re: What do you believe in?

Post by Skiddie Killer on Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:56 pm
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You must understand the difference between the Qur'an and Hadith.
Hadith are Mohammad's words,which are passed on from generation to generation.
Unfortunately,they can be false,because someone changed or added something.
I'm not saying that these are false,again it was a matter of culture and times,but Qur'an never mentions something like marrying a child.
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Re: What do you believe in?

Post by Possumdude0 on Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:20 am
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Interpreting any holy text to fit today's world is the rough equivalent of saying the authors screwed up.


No necessarily. I don't know enough about Islam to comment on Skiddie's interpretations, but I do know that some passages in the Bible were written specifically to address the culture of the time and place in which it was written. I'm thinking largely of the letters in the New Testament, some parts of which are giving specific advice to the churches they're being written to.

Some of the passages in the New Testament specifying what women should and shouldn't wear, when taken in the context of the culture of that time and place, boil down to, "Don't dress like a hooker." The specific guidelines given are only really important in the culture the letters were written to.

Like I said above, I don't know if Skiddie's interpretation of the Qur-an is anything like this. But it is possible that passages of a religious text can be written in the context of the culture they were written in.
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Re: What do you believe in?

Post by msbachman on Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:16 pm
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Possumdude0 wrote:
Interpreting any holy text to fit today's world is the rough equivalent of saying the authors screwed up.


Like I said above, I don't know if Skiddie's interpretation of the Qur-an is anything like this. But it is possible that passages of a religious text can be written in the context of the culture they were written in.


I'd agree with what you said for the most part, but that doesn't excuse the fact. Plus, the Bible/Koran should be less moldable from cultural influence...after all, each has god on its side.

Muslims are experts at equivocation in terms of embarrassing aspects of their holy books; moreso even than Christians. Skiddiekiller cleverly admitted the fact that the Hadith might have been embellished in some aspects; were it the case regarding Aisha (which is a weird fucking thing to embellish), it wouldn't really change my view that much about Islam. The Koran alone is enough for me to know for sure it's not a book I should respect.

This always seems to be how it happens: there's some fact that can't be spun, like the fact that a 'holy prophet' is a pedophile, and then all of a sudden argue 'well, it was probably tacked on later.'

Check out this link to see the pinnacle of Muslim rhetoric: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaTicy8Xpjc

Furthermore, when it becomes a tenet of faith to lie to a Kafir like me and others on this board (Taqiyya), I really see no reason to especially trust the word of any Muslim in any specific matter of faith whatsoever.
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Re: What do you believe in?

Post by confidix on Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:30 pm
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Romans have gods for everything wich is abit over the top, everyone else has their own gods. Basically it all starts with hero worship for someone and gathers momentum and following and there you go, somewhere in the past with chinese whispers its got destorted and built up like normal gossip does and millenia on the rumors n gossip are still going on.

meaning of life is to reproduce and pay taxes.
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Re: What do you believe in?

Post by imcrafty on Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:34 pm
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I'm Catholic.
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Re: What do you believe in?

Post by Monica on Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:39 pm
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WGAF?
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Re: What do you believe in?

Post by Calian on Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:41 pm
([msg=45909]see Re: What do you believe in?[/msg])

Possumdude0 wrote:
Interpreting any holy text to fit today's world is the rough equivalent of saying the authors screwed up.


No necessarily. I don't know enough about Islam to comment on Skiddie's interpretations, but I do know that some passages in the Bible were written specifically to address the culture of the time and place in which it was written. I'm thinking largely of the letters in the New Testament, some parts of which are giving specific advice to the churches they're being written to.

Some of the passages in the New Testament specifying what women should and shouldn't wear, when taken in the context of the culture of that time and place, boil down to, "Don't dress like a hooker." The specific guidelines given are only really important in the culture the letters were written to.

Like I said above, I don't know if Skiddie's interpretation of the Qur-an is anything like this. But it is possible that passages of a religious text can be written in the context of the culture they were written in.


Well that basically in the New Testament is speaking about how Paul said the various congregations, that to follow Jesus' example, you had to be all things to all people. Which is turn if your going to try your best to do that, you need to try and stay as neutral as possible. Hence women adorning themselves like the other nations at the time, didn't fit into the christian model that Jesus had left the rest of people to follow.

Your right with the certain letter being written to certain congregations at the time, each congregation had it's own problems and the letters were advice given to each of the individual congregations, generally at least. However take that today, an you should still be all things to all people. Same rule applies today.

Personally I just to follow the Bible as closely as possible, but since I'm imperfect I'm going to fail at doing it all the time. No harm in trying. Like Goatboy said there alot of religous people that do what they think is alright. Personally I think thats crap. If the bible says for instance don't kill anyone. Don't kill anyone. Doesn't matter with circumstance. I havn't found a principle/commandment thats been to my detriment yet in the bible. I just read what it says, and don't contradict myself to the best of my imperfect ability.

Although there are alot of faiths out there that do...take The Roman Catholic Church......the bible says in plain black and white homosexuality is wrong. But the church lets people who are homosexual become members of the Clergy? How in the hell does that work? If any of you are homosexual thats your choice, not judging not my place, just pointing out a fault in the church. Roman Catholic Church - hell is real your going to burn blah blah............it's not in the bible...........Christmas yea blah blah..........it's not in the bible..........trinity, WHY would Jesus, (try to keep up it gets confusing) the night before he was arrested go and pray in the garden of gethsaneme (cnt spell it) to HIMSELF? Again something else not in the bible...........Jesus wasn't cruicified.....the Jews had Jesus killed, Jews didn't crucify, the romans did, they stuck him on a stake, even the Bible says the Pilote (roman govenor at the time, can't spell it) washed his hands of it.............Saints are a load of twoddle aswell......the bible says that God is a God exacting exclusive devotion so why would he want you to worship/revere someone else?..........Death when you die you go to heaven? Not entirely true, book of revelation says otherwise, Romans 6 : something, says the Wages sin pays is death....compelling argument for no hell.

Basically I'm saying in a nutshell, people need to read the bible if there going to believe in it, and read it for themselves, without some priest etc saying "Jesus loves you" - "Why?" - "Because he does" - "Yea but why?".......an the reasons as to why god permits suffering is in the bible. read the first 3 Chapters of the book of Job and Genesis 1-4. Sums it up pretty well.

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