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Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:18 pm
by Bren2010
I have a score to settle. I have gotten into screaming matches with crazy Christians.

First of all, the bible. It was a book that they found on some hill. For all we know that could have been some elaborate fiction writers next novel. As well, the bible you all worship is not the true bible! If you spent as much time studying history as you did god, you would know there are at least thousands of versions of the bible with completely different translations.

Secondly, the image of god. People pray to god for health, strength, and wants. That must be the largest placebo effect in the entire history of the world. If you want health, you will fight your ailment, If you want strength, you will exercise, and if you want something, you will work for it. No one can effectively show the god's existance.

Thirdly, the loophole. If god created us, who created god? Who created god's god? Is there a never ending chain of god's god's? Why didn't any of these create us instead of the last in line?

Lastly, the hypocrisy. Let me summarize your choices, god loves you all, but unless you do everything he tells you, he's going to send you to hell? I can tell he really loves you. . .

Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:59 pm
by faazshift
Bren2010 wrote:I have a score to settle. I have gotten into screaming matches with crazy Christians.

First of all, the bible. It was a book that they found on some hill. For all we know that could have been some elaborate fiction writers next novel. As well, the bible you all worship is not the true bible! If you spent as much time studying history as you did god, you would know there are at least thousands of versions of the bible with completely different translations.

I cant say that this post goes for mainstream christianity, but it certainly applies to my church. We believe that many plain and precious truths were lost from the bible, but the King James Version is the closest translation.

Bren2010 wrote:Secondly, the image of god. People pray to god for health, strength, and wants. That must be the largest placebo effect in the entire history of the world. If you want health, you will fight your ailment, If you want strength, you will exercise, and if you want something, you will work for it. No one can effectively show the god's existance.

In my church we believe that you must do more than just ask. If you pray for God's help with health, you must do your part by striving for health, if you pray for God's help with strength, you must exercise. If you do nothing, save ask, you cannot expect God to bless you. After all, "faith without works is dead."

Bren2010 wrote:Thirdly, the loophole. If god created us, who created god? Who created god's god? Is there a never ending chain of god's god's? Why didn't any of these create us instead of the last in line?

Quoting one of my prophets: "as man now is, God once was, as God now is, man may become." We believe that we have the opportunity to become even as God is. It is an infinite and eternal process, from everlasting to everlasting.

Bren2010 wrote:Lastly, the hypocrisy. Let me summarize your choices, god loves you all, but unless you do everything he tells you, he's going to send you to hell? I can tell he really loves you. . .

We believe it a bit differently. Yes, God loves each one of us more than we can even comprehend (without favor of persons), after all, we are all his spirit children. That is why he sent his son, Jesus Christ, to atone for the sins of the world. Nextly, we have a much different view on hell. The only ones who will go to hell, to reside with the devil and his followers, are those sons of perdition (those who truly came to know God, not just those with a lot of faith, who then turned and openly denied and fought against him - remember Cain?!). All others who have lived or will ever live on this earth will be judged and receive some degree of glory, according to their righteousness. Now, before judgment those who didn't have the opportunity to accept or reject the gospel will be given the choice.

These are just some of my beliefs. They certainly differ from mainstream christianity, but I have personally come to know of their truth.

Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:19 pm
by Goatboy
faazshift wrote:I cant say that this post goes for mainstream christianity, but it certainly applies to my church. We believe that many plain and precious truths were lost from the bible, but the King James Version is the closest translation.

How did your church determine that the King James version is the most accurate? Unless you have seen the original and compared the two, you cannot come to this conclusion except by guessing. And even if you had the original, why not just use it? Sure, it was written in another language, but you could always make your own translation.

faazshift wrote:In my church we believe that you must do more than just ask. If you pray for God's help with health, you must do your part by striving for health, if you pray for God's help with strength, you must exercise. If you do nothing, save ask, you cannot expect God to bless you. After all, "faith without works is dead."

So basically the difference between a believer in God and a non-believer is that a believer thinks he became healthy through proper nutrition AND prayer, but a non-believer thinks it's just through proper nutrition. From an outside observer, it would look like proper nutrition was the cause in both situations.

As always, this is not just senseless bashing of your beliefs; I really want to know what your logical view is on this.

Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:43 pm
by faazshift
Goatboy wrote:How did your church determine that the King James version is the most accurate? Unless you have seen the original and compared the two, you cannot come to this conclusion except by guessing. And even if you had the original, why not just use it? Sure, it was written in another language, but you could always make your own translation.

Revelation from the Lord (yes, we believe in modern revelation).

Goatboy wrote:So basically the difference between a believer in God and a non-believer is that a believer thinks he became healthy through proper nutrition AND prayer, but a non-believer thinks it's just through proper nutrition. From an outside observer, it would look like proper nutrition was the cause in both situations.

Actually, even though we must put an effort into it, the Lord can certainly bless us (even with miracles).

Goatboy wrote:As always, this is not just senseless bashing of your beliefs; I really want to know what your logical view is on this.

Not a problem.

Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:17 am
by eljonto
Wow... I so totally couldn't give a crap about religion... All it does is insight pointless arguments between believers, non-believers and different religions about all the various hypocrisies, contradictions and bullshit they all propagate.
Sorry if that offends anyone (most likely will), but hey- freedom of speech.

Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:26 am
by sanddbox
faazshift wrote:Nextly


'nextly'...?
eljonto wrote:insight


...

Anyways:

eljonto wrote:Wow... I so totally couldn't give a crap about religion... All it does is incite pointless arguments between believers, non-believers and different religions about all the various hypocrisies, contradictions and bullshit they all propagate.
Sorry if that offends anyone (most likely will), but hey- freedom of speech.


However, there's still merit in debating. Sure, it's a never-ending argument, but it also makes us think.

Well, some of us.

Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:52 am
by eljonto
No need to be a grammar-nazi, it was a simple typo- I don't need my spelling fixed like i'm a retard.
I'm not saying there's no merit in debate, I'm all for debate, I just find stuff like:

# "God created the world and everything in it"
* "What about some of the evidence supporting evolut..."
# "That's work of the devil, convert and your soul can be saved"
* "You can't ignore certain scientif..."
# "Science is wrong, it has no merit, there is only god"
* "You're not listening to what i'm saying..."
# "God loves us all, join us, purify your soul and you won't die in a fiery eternity"

absolutely pointless.

Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:00 am
by nuckelz
If God is all powerful can he create a rock he can not move and if he was all powerful why cant he move the rock?

Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:48 am
by faazshift
nuckelz wrote:If God is all powerful can he create a rock he can not move and if he was all powerful why cant he move the rock?

God can create a rock, but one that even he cannot move? No. A rock that is entirely impossible to be moved cannot be created.

Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:02 am
by neuromanta
...still attached to this western image of god...