GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

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Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

Post by iamjman on Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:41 am
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ok that makes more sense. yeah ive never had that happen.
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Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

Post by droptable on Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:59 pm
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Vlox wrote:There is no prove god exists

No, not really.
Vlox wrote:all we have is a book witch is over 4000 years old

If you are talking about the Bible you are about 2000 years off.
Vlox wrote:probaly written by a sadistic ruler to control his people

Religion has been used by some people to control other people throughout history (usually well after it's founding) but your suggestion seems rather implausible.
Vlox wrote:by giving them belive all god is a belive yes there may have been a jesus 2000 years ago maybe he was a christian preist

How could he be a christian priest if he founded Christianity and the church didn't exist yet?
Vlox wrote:but THERE IS NO PROVE OF GOD BUT IN ACIENT WRITINGS

Ancient writing doesn't prove the existence of God.
Vlox wrote:some of you may disagre but ill ask each and every one of you if you have prove of god .

I don't.
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Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

Post by theojhawk on Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:38 pm
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:| please explain to me how the earth started, and every singly star and galaxy was created and how humans were made.
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Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

Post by Brent-tc on Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:37 pm
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theojhawk wrote::| please explain to me how the earth started, and every singly star and galaxy was created and how humans were made.

Please explain to me how God started.
I bet you say something foolish, like "he's always been here".
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Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

Post by Nines on Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:47 pm
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Brent-tc wrote:I bet you say something foolish, like "he's always been here".

It would be foolish to feel CERTAIN that something cannot have always been here.
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Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

Post by mrdead55 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:35 pm
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Ok, just a few things from various sources: First, if you haven't read Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintnance you should, it is an incredibly thought provoking and interesting book. In combination with the sequal Lila , Pirsig's two books explain alot. First off he postulates that all things try to reach "Quality." Quality is a subject of much discussion percisely because it cannot be defined, and Quality is very much similar to the idea of reaching "Zen." Pirsig further theorizes that all matter, down to the sub-atomic level, is guided by some sort of Quality. The only thing that is arguable about Quality, is not its existance or definition, but what it inhabits. There are five levels of quality, each subsequent level is more "important" than the earlier one, i.e. level 2 may reduce level 1 if need be, but level 2 may not destroy level 1 because that is the foothold that level 2 exists by. The five levels are:inorganic, death,organic, societal, and pure Quality. Each level is based off, and dependant on the previous level, but it is still morally correct for a society to sacrifice some organic desire that is not critical. For example, in order to build a city, it would be morally correct to make a man labor and pain for many hours and days so that the city can be built; but it is immoral for that man to go about destorying society (such as vandilism, theft, infidelity or societal norms, etc...) for his own organic pleasure. Permanantly at the end is Pure Quality, this is the looking glass through which everyone sees the world, through it we can determine what has good-quality and what has bad-quality. Whenever Quality progresses far enough we add on another foothold, that then supercedes the previous highest foothold.
This theory of quality can do away with many problems with our current subject-object metaphysical system. The most obvious being evolution. If we can accept the idea of infinite existance, we can postulate that the very first bonding between hydrogen or carbon was meant as an attempt by those atoms at something "better," with this in mind consider carbon bonding. Carbon has millions of permutations of bonding and is the basis of all life, carbon in the beggining found out it would be advantageous to bond with other atoms; when these simple bonds formed more complex forms the cycle continued until life was formed. This is where the controversy inevitably lies. The difference between a living being and an inorganic substance is a higher concentration of Quality, so too speak. When inorganic substance found it more advantageous to create lungs, a heart, a digestive system, and a brain, it did so in order to further its Quality. Accordingly the being or entity with the highest Quality is by definition the most moral. In light of this, a less moral substance, such as a government would be immoral in stopping free speech, free press, art, or any other Qualitative activity. Keeping this in mind, consider all governments that tired to quash free speech, think of the spartans at Thermopylae; it is moral that the entity that is has more Quality should be the longest lasting. But those entities that become corrupted, and start to supress Quality are eventually destroyed. Therefore it is moral for a free society to overthrow an oppresive society.

PS: This may be very difficult to understand withuot reading any of the aforementioned books, because of the jargon that follows any philosophy.
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Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

Post by Kubaceski on Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:16 pm
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mrdead -
Carbon has millions of permutations of bonding and is the basis of all life, carbon in the beggining found out it would be advantageous to bond with other atoms; when these simple bonds formed more complex forms the cycle continued until life was formed. This is where the controversy inevitably lies. The difference between a living being and an inorganic substance is a higher concentration of Quality, so too speak. When inorganic substance found it more advantageous to create lungs, a heart, a digestive system, and a brain, it did so in order to further its Quality.


Would you suggest that carbon is intelligent, and can make "decisions"? Or that a non-living substance can find an "advantage" , deciding to opt for an alternate build sequence to yield a system which is composed of organs which is in turn composed of tissues that these cellular processes "decided" to build, as though they would know the outcome of the resultant system? How is it that organisms or even the very cells and organelles of cells that compose said organisms "know" how and what to "build" to create the organism?- DNA sequencing is in itself a language. Language does not spawn from "randomness". It cannot. The second Law of Thermodynamics dictates that by nature any system will not gain organization or energy without an outside source being introduced into said system - what then is the source of "gaining" organization in the language DNA? Your room will not clean itself. It will continue to get messier the longer you live in it without your input of energy to "right" the system of its disorganization. (crude example, but the point is clear).

Did you know that some Brits put about a half dozen computers in a cage with a half dozen monkeys for a month? The monkeys failed to randomly construct even a single word of any language known to man. In fact, they hit the "S" key an overwhelming amount of the time, and urinated and pooed on the keyboard.

On a side note, I find it ironic that at one point, the "scientific" community used Occam's Razor as a way to "explain away" the existence of God... Yet, the farther true scientists delve into the vast unknown of ever smaller levels of structure and organization of our universe, they are no closer to a simpler explanation for the existence or perseverance of any matter than the existence and control of an intelligent designer...

Final note: All mankind WILL find out the truth of this discussion one day. Some things are true whether you believe them or not...

-K

I do not seek to ease my mind or conscience, I seek to find the truth...
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Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

Post by TechWizrd on Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:09 pm
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First of all, I would like to clarify something.It does not matter what faith your practice or do not practice. It only matters how you acted in life. I personally believe that the bare-bones of Hinduism and Buddhism best explain how one should act, especially the Eightfold Path. If everyone followed that, life would be much better.

Second, I don't think it is our job to try to prove or disprove the existence of god. We have no proof of our own existence. I am currently studying heuristics and heuristic algorithms. I hope to contribute to the field of artificial intelligence and let a machine with a greater processing power than our own weak 200 Hz limit. For more information, read General Intelligence and Seed AI.
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Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

Post by terranfighte on Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:57 pm
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Kubaceski wrote:
To the one who claims there is no God but also claims to live "morally", how do you define moral correctness? What is your standard? If we are to claim that there exists moral and immoral, then a comparison is drawn between the moral and immoral. Any comparison must have a point of reference, a standard. What, then, is your standard of "morality"? From where does it come, and from where does it derive its authority?

Those were just a few thoughts I had while perusing this thread...


I live a "moral" life. I learned my morals from the way I was treated and I learned that others should never be treated this way. I don't believe in god but, I believe that I should help others out in this world; because I would like the same. No one is forcing me to live a "moral" life but I choose to because I think it's the right way to go.

Helping others gives me a sense of happiness. Living this life alone and without anyone to help you is horrible and I had to learn that the hard way (in fact I chose to keep all my thoughts buried inside me and I refused to let anyone help me), so I would never want anyone else to feel as if they are alone.

Why don't I believe in god?

Too many things in the bible conflict with what I believe. The bible tells us that we should never disrespect our parents, even if they are hurting you. The bible tells us to hate the inevitable (what do I mean? Homosexuality is inevitable and yet the bible tells us to hate people who are homosexual, even though it isn't their fault).

Also the idea of god seems illogical, but is at the same time possible (because the idea beats logic). Right now I'm a bit less than open-minded on whether or not god exists. It's basically impossible to prove whether or not god exists because no one has proof for him, so there is no proof against him. If we do decide to argue on his existence then we are always bound to run into unlogical and unprovable "facts". For example, I could say that your life sucks and that you have no purpose, but then you could say basically ANYTHING to defeat my argument such as "god is putting me through trials to test my faith", or "because god was bored of sitting around and doing nothing, he created humans".

The only reason people choose to stick to religion is because they're waiting to be dead. They want a reason to wait and stick to life (because life sucks major ass) so they choose religion, because religion offers hope and offers a "heaven" after life. People aren't 'mature' enough to accept the fact that their lives are "meaningless" and that there is basically nothing they will get out of living through their everyday troubles. (I know my life is meaningless, but I "like" life so i choose to live on, even though at times it is a living hell).

People aren't mature enough to accept that they've made mistakes so they choose to pray and seek forgiveness from the "lord", because that's the only way they can "forgive themselves." Basically religion gives you forgiveness for praying to the lord everyday, people think that this is the easier way out instead of facing their problems (p.s they are right[from personal experience])


Is there really a lord out there keeping tally on what good deeds every single person of that 6.3 billion human population has done?

P.S.S I'm watching the Zeitgeist right now, I suggest you do too.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1611744924

it basically explains why there are so many parallels between religions such as the birth of an "idol" (such as Jesus and other mythological creatures) on december 25th, or why there are always 12 followers or why there are 3 kings looking for the "idol" (again like Jesus), or why the "idol" always dies for 3 days and then is resurrected, or why Christianity is plagiarized off a religion more than 2500 years older. It's ALL linked to astrological patterns such as the Constellations, the rotation of Earth on it's axis ect. It also explains why people think there is going to be the "End of the world" which is a "typo", the phrase is supposed to be "end of the age". (I will be there with you.... end of the world ->>> I will be there with you.... end of the age). I don't have enough time to watch the whole video but I suggest you do.
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Re: GOD DOES HE EXIST ???

Post by OneArrow on Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:16 pm
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Brent-tc wrote:
theojhawk wrote::| please explain to me how the earth started, and every singly star and galaxy was created and how humans were made.

Please explain to me how God started.
I bet you say something foolish, like "he's always been here".


To play the devil's advocate, your question is rather baited, and presupposes that our perceptions of time are indeed correct.
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