believing in an imaginary friend or god

[lord_hondros]

ADD: Also, what makes a preacher who hears voices so special, yet someone on the street who hears voices is ignored and cast aside by society? What if the church has it all wrong? Jesus did champion the poor, so if God really is talking to people, wouldn't it be the poor? That would make sense to me. But then again, religion isn't about making sense.

You, again, mix up religion with the church. It's not your fault, western people thinks in churches (especially the catholic church), when it comes to spiritual. Religion is not about making a comfy delusion about a God, "who forgives me whatever I do". Religion is about transcendence, about enlightenment. And transcendence is about knowing the true nature of the universe, to know it's deepest, invisible laws (achieving enlightenment is very much like hacking - it's life-hacking, as I often say).
It's about figuring out, that everyone, and everything is One, we are all part of the same thing, like drops of the ocean. This is called love. Love is the feeling of unity, with everything and everyone. Religion is about knowing, that you have to focus your mind on the present, to live your life, as if it would be your last day, and not let your ego tell you what to do. This is peace. Enlightenment is about knowing, that everyone is a Creator, everyone has the devine spark, and you create your own reality with your mind and thoughts (in the bible, god created Adam akin to itself... this means that humans got the divine spark, not that humans look like god... thinking that would be silly). This is freedom.
So, religion, and having faith in god is about all these, and also much more. Stop referring to religion as some made up delusion by the pope. You disgrace all of the ancient cultures, who figured out these laws of the universe. Also, god is not a person in the sky, you can't make a video of it. God is the Universe, it's the Collective Spirit, it is Nature, and it is You. You can't deny, that the Universe doesn't exist. And you can't make fun of anyone, who believes in himself.
And before you say, that figuring out the laws of the universe is just what phisics is about: you are right. Science and religion is about the same thing. If you know quantum phisics, then you know, that science is heading towards the spiritual. Modern phisics realized many aforementioned laws.

But I don't blame you, that you think this way. Western people doesn't keep the ancient traditions. It would be even harder in america, cuz the ancient americans were massacred. All I say, is that religion is not what it looks like. It is just like hacking, and anyone, who has a hacker spirit, would find much fun in figuring out the laws of the spiritual world.

Sir, with all due respect, I believe it is you that is mixing things up. A religion is a religion you follow :O Imagine that. Everyone has there own religion, whether it be agnostic, aetheist, christian, pagan, wiccan, etc etc. However, what you are describing is Spirituality (or some other form of that word). Also, if you are a christian (or any variation of christain), you follow the bible, no? Well, in the bible, it states that if you sin, and do not follow jesus, you're going to hell. The church did not make this up, as I once believed. I do not like organized religion, whether it has a church or not. And I'm not completly sure I believe in 'God' either. Rather, I believe in a creater who decided to spark life somewhere in this universe, and it spread all throughout the universe. Then, it left us alone, to evolve on our own. The only thing he tries to do is keep a balance of good and evil, because we need both. One may not wish to be raped or murdered, but we need to have occureneces of these for our spirit to learn all it can. Call it morbid or sick or whatever you want, but that's what I believe.

@ OP: I think that having an imaginary friend would actually be better than believing in god, therefore I guess I agree with Goatboy

[neuromanta]

Sir, with all due respect, I believe it is you that is mixing things up. A religion is a religion you follow :O Imagine that. Everyone has there own religion, whether it be agnostic, aetheist, christian, pagan, wiccan, etc etc. However, what you are describing is Spirituality (or some other form of that word). Also, if you are a christian (or any variation of christain), you follow the bible, no? Well, in the bible, it states that if you sin, and do not follow jesus, you're going to hell. The church did not make this up, as I once believed. I do not like organized religion, whether it has a church or not. And I'm not completly sure I believe in 'God' either. Rather, I believe in a creater who decided to spark life somewhere in this universe, and it spread all throughout the universe. Then, it left us alone, to evolve on our own. The only thing he tries to do is keep a balance of good and evil, because we need both. One may not wish to be raped or murdered, but we need to have occureneces of these for our spirit to learn all it can. Call it morbid or sick or whatever you want, but that's what I believe.

@ OP: I think that having an imaginary friend would actually be better than believing in god, therefore I guess I agree with Goatboy

With all due respect sir, the only thing you don't take into account is that all the so called "orginized religions" have the same roots. These roots are the (spiritual) laws of the universe, and these laws are the same everywhere. The prophets (like Jesus, Buddha, Zarathustra, Mohamed, etc), who started these religions realized the same rules, but they were in different cultural environment, so they tought their experiences differently. If you see deeply into all the religions of the world, you'll see that. It's true, that there are many differences between these, mainly because the people misunderstood the prophet's teachings, but the deeper wisdom is the same in all religions.
It may be true, that people have their own religion (the smarter ones), but the laws are all the same. I'm not saying, that what I say is the one and only truth, I say is that every ancient tradition has found the same laws, but "coded" it in different ways (in the holy books like the Tripitaka, Korán, Bhagavad Gitá, Bible, Ji-King, etc.). And the argument here is based on only one specific god-image (the christian one), therefore in the argument, false assumptions like 'religion=catholic church' occur.

[dark159123]

i just want to make one thing clear about the word religion, religion comes from the latin word "religio" which means "the ultimate origins of which are obscure". this is pretty important as i see a discussion about the meaning of the word rising

[Dredric1]

and no its not something you imagine its actually there

Where? Please point this out to me, or provide a picture, or a video, or a sketch on a café napkin, or hell even a pirate's map with a G for God.


God

• Invisible to everyone
• Loves you unconditionally (Yet still sees fit to send you to a place of fire, and smoke, and ash, and pain, and suffering, and torture for all eternity if you don't do what he says)
• Talks to you, although you don't actually hear it (But if you do, you're either a prophet or a lunatic... Hmm...)
• Makes you feel like you have another father

not invisible to everyone
when you research the bible you find that God doesn't send people to hell only Satan and the false prophet get sent to hell


people in my family have had experiences where there could be no doubt about there being a GOD and a satan

and i myself have also

[circuitboardsushi]

What neuromanta is talking about is really metaphyiscs, something in between philosophy, science and religion which does tend to agree much of time regardless culture. Even in cases where two philosophers disagree it is often found that they were using different definitions for some of there words.

The problem I have though is with god. Life is not always wonderful. We either need to reject that god is omnipotent or reject that it purely benevolent.

Omnipresence is an interesting idea. God exist everywhere. Anywhere you could go god was there first. Now the universe is by definition everything there is. You can never go out side the universe. Even if you went to empty space on a perpendicular dimension you would not be outside the universe the universe automatically includes you. It is the set of everything there is. If god exists everywhere in the universe and neither is bigger than the other than you realize that god=the universe.

What about creation?

Why must there be a creator? Time is just another dimension that we move in just like the other three or the proposed small dimensions that govern the subatomic world. If space goes on and on why not time. The universe is made of processes not things. The fact that were here is not so miraculous when you realize even staggering odds can be beat with sufficient scale. Just the visible cosmos defies the imagination and it is likely a small fraction of everything there is.

We should encourage ourselves and each other to develop our senses as much as possible. There are more than five.

Most people naturally follow there own moral code which are really instincts and sense of karma. If I am nice to you you will be more likely to be nice to ect. We tend to only deviate from our internal codes either by mistake or when we feel it necessary for something (like not starving or in some cases a purported higher purpose). Evil is not something that people will generally choose unless maybe they went of the deep end. Generally though people are selfish and will try to further themselves. Read Richard Dawkin's The Selfish Gene to learn more how people and animals can be booth selfish and altruistic.

Beyond the basics instincts of humanity or inhumanity as the case may be, many people, though not all, have something else. Sometimes its a dream. Other times its an imaginary friend. The thing I (and I suspect many of you) have is a thirst for knowledge, wisdom, understanding and truth.

I think information wants to be free and that the secrets of the universe reveal themselves to nobodies who care. We need not invent magic other magnificent fantasies to explain things for us. The universe is plenty magnificent and mysterious.

My proposition is the universe and everything in it is really composed of information. Perhaps this is not a very scientific idea as no one could refute it but is it any less refutable than saying that its bosons and fermions or vibrating loops of string?

Thats my religion in a nutshell

[neuromanta]

and no its not something you imagine its actually there

Where? Please point this out to me, or provide a picture, or a video, or a sketch on a café napkin, or hell even a pirate's map with a G for God.


God

• Invisible to everyone
• Loves you unconditionally (Yet still sees fit to send you to a place of fire, and smoke, and ash, and pain, and suffering, and torture for all eternity if you don't do what he says)
• Talks to you, although you don't actually hear it (But if you do, you're either a prophet or a lunatic... Hmm...)
• Makes you feel like you have another father

not invisible to everyone
when you research the bible you find that God doesn't send people to hell only Satan and the false prophet get sent to hell


people in my family have had experiences where there could be no doubt about there being a GOD and a satan

and i myself have also

This is the kind of argument, what hard atheists like Goatboy hate. And it really doesn't make any sence (well, maybe my argument also doesn't make any sence). You can't explain something like god by repeating the same cliches the catholic church gave into your mouth, over and over again.

@circuitboard: Thank you, at last there is someone, who can tell thoughtful things, and not just telling the same again and again.

[Goatboy]

not invisible to everyone

Yes. Yes, God is invisible to everyone. Nobody has seen God for real. Those that think they actually see God (and I do not mean evidence of God) are delusional or lying.

when you research the bible you find that God doesn't send people to hell only Satan and the false prophet get sent to hell

... So why not sin? If you can't go to Hell, ignore the commandments and live a fun life. And there are many passages in the bible that state very specific things that will send you to Hell.

people in my family have had experiences where there could be no doubt about there being a GOD and a satan

and i myself have also

That's great. That means that your faith is strong, since you have no doubts about God. Doesn't mean he's real though.

Also:

This is the kind of argument, what hard atheists like Goatboy hate.

I wouldn't call myself a hardcore atheist. What I am would be called an "agnostic atheist" meaning "one who does not believe in a personal God/s, but also does not know whether or not God exists" basically. I don't believe in God, because I don't see evidence of him. I'm not saying he doesn't exist. I'm saying I don't know, and I don't believe.

But yea, the whole "i seen god 4 realz hurr durr" argument doesn't do it for me.

[Dredric1]

This is the kind of argument, what hard atheists like Goatboy hate. And it really doesn't make any sence (well, maybe my argument also doesn't make any sence). You can't explain something like god by repeating the same cliches the catholic church gave into your mouth, over and over again.

@circuitboard: Thank you, at last there is someone, who can tell thoughtful things, and not just telling the same again and again.

Catholic Church?
what the F*** doest this have to do with them?
they are the F***ing beast in revelation and the pope is the anti-Christ

neuromanta you have no idea what you said no idea none at all

[neuromanta]

This is the kind of argument, what hard atheists like Goatboy hate. And it really doesn't make any sence (well, maybe my argument also doesn't make any sence). You can't explain something like god by repeating the same cliches the catholic church gave into your mouth, over and over again.

@circuitboard: Thank you, at last there is someone, who can tell thoughtful things, and not just telling the same again and again.

Catholic Church?
what the F*** doest this have to do with them?
they are the F***ing beast in revelation and the pope is the anti-Christ

neuromanta you have no idea what you said no idea none at all

Just one thing: the bible was assembled by the catholic church. Why do you think the gospel of Jesus or Judas didn't get into the bible?

[Dredric1]

This is the kind of argument, what hard atheists like Goatboy hate. And it really doesn't make any sence (well, maybe my argument also doesn't make any sence). You can't explain something like god by repeating the same cliches the catholic church gave into your mouth, over and over again.

@circuitboard: Thank you, at last there is someone, who can tell thoughtful things, and not just telling the same again and again.

Catholic Church?
what the F*** doest this have to do with them?
they are the F***ing beast in revelation and the pope is the anti-Christ

neuromanta you have no idea what you said no idea none at all

Just one thing: the bible was assembled by the catholic church. Why do you think the gospel of Jesus or Judas didn't get into the bible?

it may have been but i wasnt talking about the bible

-- Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:52 pm --

... So why not sin? If you can't go to Hell, ignore the commandments and live a fun life. And there are many passages in the bible that state very specific things that will send you to Hell.

because the whole point on earth is to choose between God and Satan
you will die because of sin and not have eternal life after this earth is done with

That's great. That means that your faith is strong, since you have no doubts about God. Doesn't mean he's real though.

no im talking about being awake and having a vision and being removed from this earth and then being placed back there again

But yea, the whole "i seen god 4 realz hurr durr" argument doesn't do it for me.

thats to bad
how often do you hear it?