Afterlife

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Re: Afterlife

Post by sanddbox on Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:21 pm
([msg=34550]see Re: Afterlife[/msg])

faazshift wrote:
sanddbox wrote:Why does improvement of character matter? If we're perfect, such things won't bother us.

Even though we will have perfected bodies, we still need characters that are worthy of progressing on to godhood.


But if God is all-powerful, howcome we can't have perfect characters, too?
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Re: Afterlife

Post by faazshift on Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:28 pm
([msg=34555]see Re: Afterlife[/msg])

sanddbox wrote:But if God is all-powerful, howcome we can't have perfect characters, too?

Are you asking why he doesn't just make our characters perfect? If so, thats because force is against his eternal plan of happiness. Force was satans plan in the pre-existence.
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Re: Afterlife

Post by sanddbox on Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:37 pm
([msg=34556]see Re: Afterlife[/msg])

faazshift wrote:
sanddbox wrote:But if God is all-powerful, howcome we can't have perfect characters, too?

Are you asking why he doesn't just make our characters perfect? If so, thats because force is against his eternal plan of happiness. Force was satans plan in the pre-existence.


Let's not get off topic - I don't really see how star wars is relevant to the discussion.

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Re: Afterlife

Post by Goatboy on Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:05 am
([msg=34557]see Re: Afterlife[/msg])

faazshift wrote:Are you asking why he doesn't just make our characters perfect? If so, thats because force is against his eternal plan of happiness. Force was satans plan in the pre-existence.

Then... He's not all-powerful. He's just really powerful.

sanddbox wrote:See what I did thar?

i c it
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Re: Afterlife

Post by faazshift on Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:26 am
([msg=34558]see Re: Afterlife[/msg])

Goatboy wrote:Then... He's not all-powerful. He's just really powerful.

So your saying that because he loves us more than to force us into his will, hes not all-powerful? I think not. He gives us freedom to choose for ourselves because he loves us.
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Re: Afterlife

Post by sanddbox on Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:30 am
([msg=34560]see Re: Afterlife[/msg])

faazshift wrote:
Goatboy wrote:Then... He's not all-powerful. He's just really powerful.

So you're saying that because he loves us more than to force us into his will, hes not all-powerful? I think not. He gives us freedom to choose for ourselves because he loves us.


Force us into his will?

1) Being perfect is different than having no will

2) God made us - so obviously, we choose to make certain decisions because of the way he made us.
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Re: Afterlife

Post by thetan on Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:02 pm
([msg=34591]see Re: Afterlife[/msg])

I've always found more amusement in god paradox:

"Would god be able to create a stone so heavy that he himself couldn't lift?" This pokes at the logical impossibility of omnipotent beings. Meaning that god either _cannot_ create a stone that he cannot lift or that he can create a stone that he _cannot_ lift. So either way theirs something that he cannot do, thus not making him almighty and all powerful.

Anyways, to be entirely fair their are some pretty clever logic "hacks" that can be applied to "prove" the counter. Such as "sure, god is so powerful he can create the rock, remove his omnipotence and then he would not be able to lift the rock". However, a quick security patch on the original paradox would be to append "without surrendering his omnipotence". Now go ahead and try and root that box ;)

Look, all i've done in this thread so far is post a link to the Zeitgeist movie (which i could honestly care less about part 1-2 (religion and 9-11), but part 3 regarding a fiat based monetary system (that we use) regulated by central banks operating on a fractional reserve system is just mind blowing). So i have yet to express my personal views on this subject which i will now do.

Over the years I've found myself becoming increasingly more spiritual while becoming increasingly less religious. I've found great peace from my spirituality while rejecting any and all organized religion. First of all i find it important to realize that their is a difference between spirituality and religion and they are by no definition synonymous.

I don't believe in a god. I believe in and have infinite respect for the void (aka, the null, 0x00, the lack of existence) and the endless spiritual mysteries associated with it.

I don't believe in the concept of a soul. I believe in existence and non-existence. I believe that we have always existed as energy (or some unfathomable force) since the creation of the universe/multi-verse and thus we are all connected through this energy and once we cease with our current existence we will return to the universe/multi-verse as the energy that we have always been and maybe perhaps one day we will become one with the void.

I don't believe in a heaven, hell or any afterlife. I think i covered the majority of this in the previous paragraph. To extend on it a bit, i think hell is not a place you go for being a heathen but it's the failure to work at achieving your lives greatest ambition.

I don't trust organized religions. More blood has been spilled in the name of the Christian religion then any other religion in history. The occurrence of the rise of violence in the name of rogue and mini-large theocracy (mainly that of the sharia) in the middle east is nothing but yet another of history reiterating through a different culture. I believe that Karl Marx got it right when he said "Religion is the opiate of the masses". Organized religion has also proven throughout time to be the greatest way to control masses, which even dates back to the "priest hood" of the ancient aztecs (lol, we found their tunnels to the "afterlife", silleh no0bs) to ancient "Alchemists" making gold out of whatever they threw in a pot and waved their hands over (o0ps, we found their rigged pots too, silleh control hungry no0bs, their all alike)
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Re: Afterlife

Post by faazshift on Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:27 pm
([msg=34593]see Re: Afterlife[/msg])

My thoughts on that supposed paradox are this: God cannot create something mightier than himself. He cant create something he cant lift or destroy, but that in no way lessens his power and glory. This supposed paradox seems to me to neither prove, nor disprove anything.

Whats your problem with organization? I too feel the crusades were wrong (in fact, I feel it terribly wrong that they ever made such a mockery as to claim their acts in the name of Christ, when they were quite contrary to his teachings; nonetheless, my beliefs are entirely against that), but that doesn't mean that order among a group of people is a bad thing.

Also, with your beliefs, can you really feel happy thinking that after you die, you are nullified? Doesn't that make life seem a bit pointless? I just think that the belief of ceasing to exist after this life would be miserable.
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Re: Afterlife

Post by sanddbox on Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:43 am
([msg=34603]see Re: Afterlife[/msg])

faazshift wrote:Also, with your beliefs, can you really feel happy thinking that after you die, you are nullified? Doesn't that make life seem a bit pointless? I just think that the belief of ceasing to exist after this life would be miserable.


Yeah, it sucks. But when something sucks, you get used to it, make some changes, and move on.

Enjoy life now - don't bother wasting it for some afterlife that probably doesn't exist.
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Re: Afterlife

Post by faazshift on Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:08 am
([msg=34604]see Re: Afterlife[/msg])

sanddbox wrote:Enjoy life now - don't bother wasting it for some afterlife that probably doesn't exist.

Well, if there is nothing after this, whats the point in anything? What makes it worthwhile to keep going? Is there really a point to suffering through all that this life shoves upon us?

Anyway, I am thoroughly convinced that there is something beyond this life. Be skeptical if you will, but I personally know it to be so.
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