Life got you down? - Christianity

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Re: Life got you down? - Christianity

Post by NeoAtHTS on Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:23 am
([msg=36084]see Re: Life got you down? - Christianity[/msg])

Interesting topic!

Damn! i missed it! :cry:

P.S.: Don't bring up "g0d made u missed it", I MISSED IT. :twisted:
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Re: Life got you down? - Christianity

Post by xfelix on Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:23 am
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Why are people coming on this thread and talking smack about Jesus? He was sent to Earth to die on the cross for our sins, and spoke great words of wisdom. Jesus was Nobel and endured alot of pain and suffering, and can relate with us when we are going through hardships. There is alot of proof that God exists, it's a matter of are you willing to accept and seek out the proof for yourself check this out http://www.allaboutcreation.org/proof-of-god.htm.

As for people who think they can prove God does not exist... They are apparently not savvy of the principles of Mathematics or Logic. Suppose the statement P: "God does exist", P is a universal affirmative, and ~P would be the universal negative. Now suppose a similar yet different statement Q:"All men are just" and ~Q : "All men are unjust". As one can see Q can not necessarily be true since there are corrupt politicians, con-artists, crooked hackers, etc. But ~Q can not necessarily be true either since there are some people like Socrates, Batman, and Chuck Norris. Q ^ ~Q are contraries to each other and similar P and ~P therefore you can not prove that God does not exist. There is how ever alot of subjective evidence that God does exist, such as near death experiences, people who have prayers answered, people who have seeked out to disprove God who then came more to believe in God. The list can go on and on...

I say the next time you are walking down the street, and you see someone looking down in the dumps just say a prayer for them that God will give them the strength to make it through and/or just brighten their day up.

For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his life?"
(Mark 8.34-36 ESV)
q.e.d.

Here is a tribute to the fools,
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Re: Life got you down? - Christianity

Post by sanddbox on Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:11 am
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I refuse to read that post until you spell the word 'noble' right.
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Re: Life got you down? - Christianity

Post by Goatboy on Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:45 am
([msg=36184]see Re: Life got you down? - Christianity[/msg])

xfelix wrote: As for people who think they can prove God does not exist... They are apparently not savvy of the principles of Mathematics or Logic. Suppose the statement P: "God does exist", P is a universal affirmative, and ~P would be the universal negative. Now suppose a similar yet different statement Q:"All men are just" and ~Q : "All men are unjust". As one can see Q can not necessarily be true since there are corrupt politicians, con-artists, crooked hackers, etc. But ~Q can not necessarily be true either since there are some people like Socrates, Batman, and Chuck Norris. Q ^ ~Q are contraries to each other and similar P and ~P therefore you can not prove that God does not exist.

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You need to take something beyond Intro to Logic before you can start making these arguments.

You are that saying P = "All men are just" so therefore -P = "All men are unjust"
However, if you say P = "All men are just" then -P actually means "Not all men are just"
This is because we can only falsify a statement by making it negative, not change its property (just vs unjust).

Expressed as an existential statement: ∃x P(x)
It translates to "There exists at least one x such that x is just." That can mean "There exists some man such that he is just" which further means there could be only one just man, four just men, 207 just men, or all men could be just. This existential statement is much more fitting when using terms such as "all" and "none"

The way you said it, you made it seem as if either all men are just, or none are. This is clearly not the case, since we are dealing with a universal group consisting of more than one entity. As soon as you start dealing with multiple entities, it gets increasingly difficult to use words such as "all" or "none" as you demonstrated above. We cannot logically conclude (using universal statements) that 3.5 billion men are all just, or all unjust.

Now, in dealing with God, we are able to use such statements because we are dealing with only one entity. We can let Q = "God exists" and correctly say that -Q = "God does not exist" without having to justify it using higher-level logic patterns. In this sense, yes, we can say "God does not exist" or we can say "God does exist" but only one can be correct.

So, you actually can prove that God does or does not exist. It's just going to be really really really really really hard to do either one scientifically.

ADD: Also, according to your logic, you can't prove God does exist either, since P ^ -P is a contradiction. I could argue the correctness of that, but you're wrong either way, so...
Assume that everything I say is or could be a lie.
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Re: Life got you down? - Christianity

Post by NeoAtHTS on Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:35 am
([msg=36185]see Re: Life got you down? - Christianity[/msg])

xfelix wrote:Why are people coming on this thread and talking smack about Jesus? He was sent to Earth to die on the cross for our sins, and spoke great words of wisdom. Jesus was Nobel and endured alot of pain and suffering, and can relate with us when we are going through hardships. There is alot of proof that God exists, it's a matter of are you willing to accept and seek out the proof for yourself check this out http://www.allaboutcreation.org/proof-of-god.htm.

As for people who think they can prove God does not exist... They are apparently not savvy of the principles of Mathematics or Logic. Suppose the statement P: "God does exist", P is a universal affirmative, and ~P would be the universal negative. Now suppose a similar yet different statement Q:"All men are just" and ~Q : "All men are unjust". As one can see Q can not necessarily be true since there are corrupt politicians, con-artists, crooked hackers, etc. But ~Q can not necessarily be true either since there are some people like Socrates, Batman, and Chuck Norris. Q ^ ~Q are contraries to each other and similar P and ~P therefore you can not prove that God does not exist. There is how ever alot of subjective evidence that God does exist, such as near death experiences, people who have prayers answered, people who have seeked out to disprove God who then came more to believe in God. The list can go on and on...

I say the next time you are walking down the street, and you see someone looking down in the dumps just say a prayer for them that God will give them the strength to make it through and/or just brighten their day up.

For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his life?"
(Mark 8.34-36 ESV)
q.e.d.

Here is a tribute to the fools,
Image


I didn't come to "smack" here! :o
I just wanted to share my ideas and have fun. ;)
And why does the word god mean just jesus to u, is that the only god u know? :roll:
Also I don't agree with the epithet "crooked" for a hacker(i'm not one, not yet),
it'd better suit a conventional. >.<

I come from a place of 100 gods, but I chose to be an atheist, and probably I'll be the only one around my place and none of 'em god-believers would just sit and listen to what I've to say; Instead they barge in and stuff their theories in my throat. I believe in science, thoughts, beliefs, civilization, basic wantings,... etc but not gods and 'god'dian happenings. If you'd want to believe in gods, go ahead, it's your belief, I revere it. But I have my own theories, I don't want you to revere it; the least I expect is a lil consideration.

Btw, I don't know what that image of yours symbolizes. :?:
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Re: Life got you down? - Christianity

Post by ChippZanuff on Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:32 am
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NeoAtHTS wrote:Btw, I don't know what that image of yours symbolizes. :?:

Mr. T pities the fool.
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Re: Life got you down? - Christianity

Post by xfelix on Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:17 am
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Indeed my Logic is Fuzzy at 2 in the morning... I will redo the proof.
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Re: Life got you down? - Christianity

Post by nermd on Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:31 am
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:P
With this world there is no understanding, we belong their only to the extent, as we rebel against it (Theodor W. Adorno) --> if somebody knows a "official" translation for the well known german quote ... pls let me know!
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Re: Life got you down? - Christianity

Post by sanddbox on Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:29 am
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Re: Life got you down? - Christianity

Post by Goatboy on Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:05 pm
([msg=36197]see Re: Life got you down? - Christianity[/msg])

xfelix wrote:Indeed my Logic is Fuzzy at 2 in the morning... I will redo the proof.

You didn't write a proof. You used (incorrectly, might I add) entry-level functions which were completely irrelevant to what you were trying to prove. You were mixing a singular binary function (existence for one being) with a universal predicate function (justness of all men) which just doesn't sit well with conventional Logic. Your argument was essentially "Men are not good or bad therefore God."

And if I can do logic at 2:45 AM, you can too.

@sanddbox: You can't spell "Epicurus" without "Epic"
Assume that everything I say is or could be a lie.
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