Do you guys/girls beleve in god?

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Re: Do you guys/girls beleve in god?

Post by Black-Lightning on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:35 pm
([msg=13704]see Re: Do you guys/girls beleve in god?[/msg])

I believe in God. I will not go into extreme detail even though it is possible. For all those who do not, I offer Pascal's wager.

"If there is a God, He is infinitely incomprehensible, since, having neither parts nor limits, He has no affinity to us. We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is....

..."God is, or He is not." But to which side shall we incline? Reason can decide nothing here. There is an infinite chaos which separated us. A game is being played at the extremity of this infinite distance where heads or tails will turn up. What will you wager? According to reason, you can do neither the one thing nor the other; according to reason, you can defend neither of the propositions.

Do not, then, reprove for error those who have made a choice; for you know nothing about it. "No, but I blame them for having made, not this choice, but a choice; for again both he who chooses heads and he who chooses tails are equally at fault, they are both in the wrong. The true course is not to wager at all."

Yes; but you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us see. Since you must choose, let us see which interests you least. You have two things to lose, the true and the good; and two things to stake, your reason and your will, your knowledge and your happiness; and your nature has two things to shun, error and misery. Your reason is no more shocked in choosing one rather than the other, since you must of necessity choose. This is one point settled. But your happiness? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.

"That is very fine. Yes, I must wager; but I may perhaps wager too much." Let us see. Since there is an equal risk of gain and of loss, if you had only to gain two lives, instead of one, you might still wager. But if there were three lives to gain, you would have to play (since you are under the necessity of playing), and you would be imprudent, when you are forced to play, not to chance your life to gain three at a game where there is an equal risk of loss and gain. But there is an eternity of life and happiness. And this being so, if there were an infinity of chances, of which one only would be for you, you would still be right in wagering one to win two, and you would act stupidly, being obliged to play, by refusing to stake one life against three at a game in which out of an infinity of chances there is one for you, if there were an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain. But there is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite."

In short, what do you have to lose by believing? Not a whole lot (in the big picture).
What you lose by not believing? Quite a bit (in the big picture).
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Re: Do you guys/girls beleve in god?

Post by TheMindRapist on Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:31 pm
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I showed problems with Pascal's Wager somewhere in this thread, read back, not that it is going to change your opinion.
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Re: Do you guys/girls beleve in god?

Post by Black-Lightning on Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:11 pm
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Point taken. The question, therefore, would be: "how do you want to live your life?"
Personally, since I really have no urge to do anything I consider unethical, etc., Pascal works quite well for me.
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Re: Do you guys/girls beleve in god?

Post by blagmoth on Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:50 pm
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I think it is very hard to determine the truth when it comes to god simply because our knowledge of the universe
is incomplete. I think we can determine if the individual religion is valid through it's claims, and while many if not all are shown to be false, it doesn't rule out the possibility of a being that is present without our knowledge. I personally don't believe in god because there isn't anything in my life that makes me think god exist.
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Re: Do you guys/girls beleve in god?

Post by tatampoy on Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:53 am
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Personally, I believe in God. I don't believe in the argument of the wasting your life to serve God and not knowing whether of not there is an afterlife to reward it or something like that. For example, what harm or loss would it do to me if I accept God to be my saviour ( which will take for about five minutes) than risk eternal damnation and wait for death to come and see whether or not I'm correct (Speaking in a Christian point of view btw). Its like, God does not require you to cut your arm or something, all you need to do is accept Him as your Lord and Saviour, yet people still find it "HARD" in a sense to do that.

Evolutionists have long tried to prove the origin of life, yet Christians simply say that God created everything (that simple). Asked how God came to be, simply put once more, it can't be comprehended. Believing in God, He is known to be omnipotent, omniscient, etc (in short, waaay beyond your comprehension) We, as humans, only have a limited knowledge to this world. The universe around us is so complex that we still can't fully comprehend it...what more if we try to comprehend the Creator of the universe so complex...I believe that the Creator would be FAR MORE complex that its creation.... . Yet, people STILL want to prove it with science and logic.

To sum it all up, just picture---evolutionists climbing for many years to the top of a mountain in search for the explanation of how life came to be, yet once they reach the top, they see a group of believers sitting there for thousands of years. ;)
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Re: Do you guys/girls beleve in god?

Post by Dr_Phil on Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:10 am
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What I don't understand is why god have this crazy obsession about beeing believed on.
If I am a good person, friendly neighbour, nice brother and son, do my best in school and am a Jew, why can't I come to the Christians paradise?
Just because I don't believe in your God?
But why does God want me to believe in him?
Is he a attentionfrek?

If God does exist, I don't think he cares if I believe in him (her) or not, as long as I am a good person and is nice to our fellow beeings!

PS I am not a jew! :) I live in a christian country, but am an atheist.
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Re: Do you guys/girls beleve in god?

Post by Zelth on Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:13 pm
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Who said God has an obsession of being believed on? It's just that how can you go to the Christians paradise if you don't acknowledge the one who created it? On my beliefs as a Christian, I believe that there are only two sides in the world: Satan's kingdom, and God's kingdom. Because of Satan and sin, all who are born into this world are in Satan's kingdom. And as long as you're in Satan's kingdom, you cannot enter into God's paradise (some know it as heaven). But, to get rid of the sin in people, God sent his Son Jesus who took all of our sin onto himself, and died. But since Jesus is someone who doesn't have any sin in himself, death couldn't hold him, therefore He was raised from the dead. This shows how Jesus defeated sin aka Satan.

So if one does not believe in Jesus (the one who died for our sin), then his/her name is not written in the book of life. Even if those who do good in this world, and help the needy, but does not acknowledge Jesus and his father, God, then they cannot have eternal life.

Also, it's not really God who's obsessed about believing in Him. Sure, He wants everyone to believe in him, because He doesn't want them to suffer with Satan, but it's the Christians who want you to believe in Christ Jesus and God, because they (desperately) do not want their friends and relatives to suffer in hell (lake of fire).
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Re: Do you guys/girls beleve in god?

Post by tatampoy on Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:27 am
([msg=13775]see Re: Do you guys/girls beleve in god?[/msg])

Dr_Phil wrote:What I don't understand is why god have this crazy obsession about beeing believed on.
If I am a good person, friendly neighbour, nice brother and son, do my best in school and am a Jew, why can't I come to the Christians paradise?
Just because I don't believe in your God?
But why does God want me to believe in him?
Is he a attentionfrek?

If God does exist, I don't think he cares if I believe in him (her) or not, as long as I am a good person and is nice to our fellow beeings!

PS I am not a jew! :) I live in a christian country, but am an atheist.


I would like to clear up this thing. Doing good works does NOT bring you to heaven. Good works are is not the payment or way to heaven. In the point of God not caring, there is such a thing as the holiness of God. As said in the Bible, the wages of sin is death (no matter what you try to do in your own strength you will go to hell). Yet, there is also the love of God, He gave His Son to save us. All you have to do is accept His Son and you will be saved.

Note: I am not saying doing good works will result to nothing. God acknowledges good works BUT---not as a way to heaven BUT as a basis of your eternal reward.
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Re: Do you guys/girls beleve in god?

Post by Dr_Phil on Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:46 am
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So you can be a damn bad person (murder, thief and spitting on churches) and come to heaven, as long as I accept Jesus as the son of God?
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Re: Do you guys/girls beleve in god?

Post by Zelth on Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:01 pm
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Dr_Phil wrote:So you can be a damn bad person (murder, thief and spitting on churches) and come to heaven, as long as I accept Jesus as the son of God?


Well... basically yes, you can. But you have to confess your sins and repent.
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