Welchia Worm

What is right? Is there right? Are you right?

Re: Welchia Worm

Post by aNewHobby4me on Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:28 am
([msg=25724]see Re: Welchia Worm[/msg])

godofcereal wrote:So if I'm not smart enough to know that walking around a mine field is a bad thing, people shouldnt stop me from potentialy hurting myself?


Your analogy isn't a proper fit, as having a computer virus doesn't risk losing life or limb.

Perhaps a better one might be:
"I warned them that the lack of proper maintenance of their motor vehicle would reduce performance and may render it unusable. They didn't listen so I broke into their garage and changed the oil for them."
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Re: Welchia Worm

Post by Charlieace on Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:15 pm
([msg=25773]see Re: Welchia Worm[/msg])

i believe that with an anti-virus worm, thousands of dollars could be saved in replacing or repairing infected computers. so yes, i support it.
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Re: Welchia Worm

Post by The Riviera Kid on Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:32 pm
([msg=25779]see Re: Welchia Worm[/msg])

Charlieace wrote:i believe that with an anti-virus worm, thousands of dollars could be saved in replacing or repairing infected computers. so yes, i support it.


But for this worm to be effective, the destructive worm would have to already be on your computer (which means it has already caused damage) - it's not a great way to think about virus protection as - "oh, well, i'll get it but it will go away eventually"
Anyone who needs this worm has already had their computer infected, assuming the Blaster worm isn't coded -

if (beenOnSystemFor > 24 hours)
      rapeShitUp();

The damage is already is done if you need the welchia worm
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Re: Welchia Worm

Post by aNewHobby4me on Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:16 am
([msg=25807]see Re: Welchia Worm[/msg])

Tentra wrote:So I'm asking everyone if you think that approach to virus removal is ethical?


I think it would be ethical only if it were an altruistic act. If you did it for your own gratification it would not.
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Re: Welchia Worm

Post by Tentra on Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:53 am
([msg=25860]see Re: Welchia Worm[/msg])

The Riviera Kid wrote:
Charlieace wrote:i believe that with an anti-virus worm, thousands of dollars could be saved in replacing or repairing infected computers. so yes, i support it.


But for this worm to be effective, the destructive worm would have to already be on your computer (which means it has already caused damage) - it's not a great way to think about virus protection as - "oh, well, i'll get it but it will go away eventually"
Anyone who needs this worm has already had their computer infected, assuming the Blaster worm isn't coded -

if (beenOnSystemFor > 24 hours)
      rapeShitUp();

The damage is already is done if you need the welchia worm


You need to think about other worms and viruses that don't function like that. The worm might be used for Denial Of Service attacks, or might monitor the users activity.

Wikipedia wrote:[Blaster] was programmed to start a SYN flood on August 15, 2003 against port 80 of windowsupdate.com, thereby creating a distributed denial of service attack (DDoS) against the site.


Blaster stayed on your computer and continued to do damage over a period of time. It wasn't a "hit and run" style worm.
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Re: Welchia Worm

Post by The Riviera Kid on Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:51 am
([msg=25861]see Re: Welchia Worm[/msg])

Ok thanks for clearing that up for me tentra, i didn't really understand how the worm worked (also i had a fail so bad that I should change my signature)
line 1 should be:
if ((HOURS)beenOnSystemFor > 24)
:oops:

This changes how I think of the welchia worm though - if people may inadvertantly take on a virus which may damage other people (in a way they can't defend) then it thinks that it is right for this welchia worm to be spread.
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Re: Welchia Worm

Post by The7thGuest on Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:47 am
([msg=26009]see Re: Welchia Worm[/msg])

Since this is an ethical question I'm going to increase the pressure on the universal rule of cause and effect.
I'm listed as a DNR, which means when I die, they have to leave me, even if they could save my life.
The question is basically asking whether a doctor can save my life in this scenario?

I completely disagree, users should have the option of being "saved" by other peoples actions or not.

Forcing your decisions upon others is a sign of arrogance and unless you've never made a mistake in your life or your a supreme being, leave me the hell alone I'd rather burn and learn from it than remain completely ignorant of the threats.
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Re: Welchia Worm

Post by aNewHobby4me on Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:46 am
([msg=26012]see Re: Welchia Worm[/msg])

The7thGuest wrote:I'm listed as a DNR, which means when I die, they have to leave me, even if they could save my life.
The question is basically asking whether a doctor can save my life in this scenario?


No, as you have explicitly refused any assistance in advance.

However, if you are already a patient, the hospital must have a signed DNR filed to respect your wishes. Of course if you wait that long, you might have waited too long. (Nights are long in ER, lots of time to have things explained to you.)

It is hard to make this analogy work with computer virus, as death is the ultimate unrecoverable error.

Off-topic aside: You have a DNR. If you were in an accident how would the EMTs know about it (if you were unable to tell them)?
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Re: Welchia Worm

Post by The7thGuest on Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:15 am
([msg=26013]see Re: Welchia Worm[/msg])

Paramedics or emergency staff would not know this, there is no possible way for them to know on the scene of an accident, however it is clearly stated on my file with the medical aid.

Do not confuse DNR for don't give me medicine, it doesn't mean that they'll just refuse to treat anything, it simply means they can try to force my body to come back to life unless I'm there to make the choice. Basically, if I'm in slowly dying from cancer they'll still treat the cancer, but if I stop breathing, they can't start CPR.
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Re: Welchia Worm

Post by aNewHobby4me on Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:32 am
([msg=26014]see Re: Welchia Worm[/msg])

Oh, I am very clear on DNR. The phrase they use is "no extraordinary measures" will be taken beyond CPR. If you can't be jump-started back to life, you don't get the machines to keep you alive.

I thought you might have a Medic Alert bracelet or something of that nature.

FYI, the EMT did ask me specifically if my father had a DNR (at the time he did not, see my earlier statement about hospitals).
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