United States Health Care Bill

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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by everfall on Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:04 pm
([msg=33869]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

Universal health care is not control, it's allowing the poor to survive.
Plus Americans should be used to control by now.
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by faazshift on Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:37 pm
([msg=33871]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

Defience wrote:People left England in the 17th century to come to America to get away from government control. Even though it was mainly for freedom of religion, the point was to have individual rights. Why would the U.S.A. want to give up a piece of freedom that has been fought for for hundreds of years? To me it's about government control, and it has been inching it's way into the private sectors for years. Barrack Hussein Obama has stated several times that his goal is for a 'Universal health care' system but then on several occasions, he has denied using the word 'Universal'. Government control? World control? NWO?

Hehe... true. These days political corruption seems to be all to rampant. The government wants more power, and the citizens are, for the most part, allowing it to happen.
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by everfall on Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:48 pm
([msg=33873]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

faazshift wrote:
everfall wrote:Just a question, but have any of you guys thought that your government should be the one paying?
It would be an amazing step forward if the US brought public health service in.

Well I don't know if a governmentally funded health care system could work, but the current bill, as I see it, will epically fail and do much more harm than good. In regards to me thinking the government should be the one paying, no. Sure people don't like having to pay big bills, but it doesn't mean that someone else should have to pay your bills. If anything health care needs to cost less. Medical professionals get payed enormous amounts of money, and medical facilities have enormous funds, which is a result of all the money they charge people that doesn't have to be charged. The reform needs to happen in the health care facilities, not the health insurance.


Well public health care works for most of the world, Americans need to stop being so greedy you pay a little bit of taxes to insure that you and everyone else has access to medical services. How is that wrong?
The Government has the task of looking after its people but the American government wont look after the people that cannot afford to look after them selfs.

You are not simply asking someone else to pay the bill you are asking everyone to share.

And if you don't want to wait in line for a little while longer or help someone less fortunate then you, then go get private health insurance.
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by Defience on Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:59 pm
([msg=33874]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

everfall wrote:Universal health care is not control, it's allowing the poor to survive.
Plus Americans should be used to control by now.


Universal health care is most certainly control. It specifies when you can get treated as well as where you can get treated. Even with my current health insurance, which is a fairly good plan, I still have to have a PCP (primary care physician) or it won't be covered. I have to choose from within a certain network, otherwise I would have to pay for it out of pocket. If I choose to switch PCPs, I would have to wait at least 1 month for it to take effect. Also, while from a statistical stand point, someones income might be considered in the poor class, doesn't mean that they don't work or have some form of insurance. There are free clinics, government programs, etc. that already exist to aid in this. We don't need this total control aspect implemented. There is way too much waste and spending in health care that needs addressed to make it more affordable to everyone.
I also agree with the comment made earlier in this post about the government bail outs, that economists said the money that was used could have been given directly to every person in the US which would have boosted the economy. It would've broken down to approximately $30,000 per person!

-- Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:07 pm --

everfall wrote:
faazshift wrote:
everfall wrote:Just a question, but have any of you guys thought that your government should be the one paying?
It would be an amazing step forward if the US brought public health service in.

Well I don't know if a governmentally funded health care system could work, but the current bill, as I see it, will epically fail and do much more harm than good. In regards to me thinking the government should be the one paying, no. Sure people don't like having to pay big bills, but it doesn't mean that someone else should have to pay your bills. If anything health care needs to cost less. Medical professionals get payed enormous amounts of money, and medical facilities have enormous funds, which is a result of all the money they charge people that doesn't have to be charged. The reform needs to happen in the health care facilities, not the health insurance.


Well public health care works for most of the world, Americans need to stop being so greedy you pay a little bit of taxes to insure that you and everyone else has access to medical services. How is that wrong?
The Government has the task of looking after its people but the American government wont look after the people that cannot afford to look after them selfs.

You are not simply asking someone else to pay the bill you are asking everyone to share.

And if you don't want to wait in line for a little while longer or help someone less fortunate then you, then go get private health insurance.


I pay roughly $1600 in taxes every 2 weeks, hardly a little in my book, but now you're getting into the concept of Socialism. I work hard and have earned everything that I have. Why should I take such a hit to 'spread the wealth' to someone who doesn't want to work or try harder? Granted not everyone has the same opportunities in life but they are not my responsibility, nor is anyone in another country (Universal). The system need reformed, not government controlled. It is being rammed down our throats.
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by everfall on Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:19 pm
([msg=33875]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

[/quote]
Universal health care is most certainly control. It specifies when you can get treated as well as where you can get treated. Even with my current health insurance, which is a fairly good plan, I still have to have a PCP (primary care physician) or it won't be covered. I have to choose from within a certain network, otherwise I would have to pay for it out of pocket. If I choose to switch PCPs, I would have to wait at least 1 month for it to take effect. Also, while from a statistical stand point, someones income might be considered in the poor class, doesn't mean that they don't work or have some form of insurance. There are free clinics, government programs, etc. that already exist to aid in this. We don't need this total control aspect implemented. There is way too much waste and spending in health care that needs addressed to make it more affordable to everyone.
I also agree with the comment made earlier in this post about the government bail outs, that economists said the money that was used could have been given directly to every person in the US which would have boosted the economy. It would've broken down to approximately $30,000 per person![/quote]

Universal health care is most certainly not control. Lets look at Australia There are public hospital everywhere, you can go in anytime you need to sure there is a waiting time but its not that long. Also most GP are free, and if there not you get a rebate anyhow.
Say you need surgery in Australia using the public health system there is of course going to be a waiting list, but you will get it very cheep.

But if they do enact it in America they will most likely use a different system.
Either way public health is not control, it is intelligent.
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by faazshift on Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:52 pm
([msg=33876]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

everfall wrote:Either way public health is not control, it is intelligent.

No, its just another way for the government to control its citizens lives. Its another step in line with things like the RIAA, MPAA, ACTA, etc etc etc. The government is taking further control of us one step at a time. How isn't the government forcing its citizens into something they don't want considered control? It seems pretty controlling to me.
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by everfall on Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:54 pm
([msg=33877]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

[/quote]

I pay roughly $1600 in taxes every 2 weeks, hardly a little in my book, but now you're getting into the concept of Socialism. I work hard and have earned everything that I have. Why should I take such a hit to 'spread the wealth' to someone who doesn't want to work or try harder? Granted not everyone has the same opportunities in life but they are not my responsibility, nor is anyone in another country (Universal). The system need reformed, not government controlled. It is being rammed down our throats.[/quote]

Face palm.. once again all we hear is me me me. It's not your responsibility it's the Governments but it is your responsibility to help fund your government. So basically, you have a problem with free health cover, but your more then happy to fund the wars that your country starts? Maybe your government should spend time making life better for it's citizens instead of fighting wars. But why should they when there already happy with there brainwashed propaganda fed lives.

-- Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:56 am --

faazshift wrote:
everfall wrote:Either way public health is not control, it is intelligent.

No, its just another way for the government to control its citizens lives. Its another step in line with things like the RIAA, MPAA, ACTA, etc etc etc. The government is taking further control of us one step at a time. How isn't the government forcing its citizens into something they don't want considered control? It seems pretty controlling to me.


How is free health cover controlling? Sure for some dumb reason it's citizens might see it as evil socialism. but how is it controling?
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by faazshift on Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:31 pm
([msg=33879]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

everfall wrote:Face palm.. once again all we hear is me me me. It's not your responsibility it's the Governments but it is your responsibility to help fund your government. So basically, you have a problem with free health cover, but your more then happy to fund the wars that your country starts? Maybe your government should spend time making life better for it's citizens instead of fighting wars. But why should they when there already happy with there brainwashed propaganda fed lives.

everfall wrote:How is free health cover controlling? Sure for some dumb reason it's citizens might see it as evil socialism. but how is it controling?

First off, its certainly not free health coverage. Your taxes go up and its just lumped in with those, so you really don't know exactly how much you are being charged, except that it is a lot. Second, you lose control over you own health care. Some people may not even want health care. Some may want options. Something like this would entirely remove any ability to choose. You are forced into what the government thinks is best, rather than having any choice for yourself. I personally don't feel even slightly comfortable trusting the government with yet more power over me.
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by Defience on Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:36 pm
([msg=33883]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

everfall wrote:Face palm.. once again all we hear is me me me. It's not your responsibility it's the Governments but it is your responsibility to help fund your government. So basically, you have a problem with free health cover, but your more then happy to fund the wars that your country starts? Maybe your government should spend time making life better for it's citizens instead of fighting wars. But why should they when there already happy with there brainwashed propaganda fed lives.


Is there something wrong with "me,me,me"? I made sure that I did my homework in school and that I graduated. I also worked and made sacrifices to pay for my college education and I work hard at my job so I can have the things that I have. I didn't do those things so the lazy ass that dropped out of school, steals or deal drugs for a living can share my income with me. I don't know where you come up with the notion that its 'free' health cover, either.

everfall wrote:but your more then happy to fund the wars that your country starts?

That isn't up to me, its up to the President of the United States of America (the Commander in Chief), which makes him the top military leader in this country. If he and the US government feel it is necessary to take military action, then they are so empowered to do so but that doesn't mean that every aspect of life should fall under government control. That's the very thing that our Constitution and Bill of Rights protects against.
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by insomaniacal on Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:37 pm
([msg=33884]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

The last thing the government needs to do is give people more of a reason to be lazy. People say that not everyone has the same opportunities. That's bullshit, true, some people have wealthy families who'll pay for private schooling, others don't. However, unless you are lazy there's no reason you can't afford health-care of insurance. Especially in America.

My parents had no opportunities whatsoever. They had to wait 12 hours to buy a pair of shoes or some bread in communist Poland, and yet we live in a relatively upper class neighborhood, and I attend the second most expensive school in the region. It didn't take daddy with big bucks, in fact, my mother's father was primarily a farmer, while my other grandfather died in an military accident. It takes a productive attitude, and an environment that promotes rewards for being productive, and punishment for being lazy.
It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes
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