United States Health Care Bill

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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by Goatboy on Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:04 pm
([msg=33839]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

I usually try to stay away from politics as much as possible. There are many reasons for this, one of which is that I think it's largely a popularity contest I want no part of. This has some drawbacks, the biggest of which is that I tend to not know what plans are in store for the future.

Nonetheless, I do have some strong opinions about healthcare. First off, the idea of being required to have healthcare is ridiculous. I can understand car insurance, because when you drive you are not only endangering yourself, but others as well. But with health/life insurance, it makes no sense to be mandatory. If you sit at home all day and rarely do anything dangerous, you are not likely to get injured. However, if you work in construction, or some other risky job, it makes sense to have it.

Now as far as taxes go, I don't see why I should have to pay for someone else to have a doctor visit. Period. If they want it, they can pay for it. If they can't pay for it, they are pretty much out of luck. There's no reason people should get a free ride from those who have the money. Now I know a lot of people will say "You won't think like that when you get hurt!" or something similar. The truth is, you are probably right. The moment I see the doctor's bill, I will wish someone else could pay for it. But as much as I may want that, I still would know in my heart that it's just not right.
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by sanddbox on Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:11 pm
([msg=33845]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

darkestarrow wrote:The bill will only support 30 million out of 400 million in the united states. Im lookin at the math and it will only benefit 13% of the population.


Please - leave the pulling facts out of the ass to me. I'm an expert.

-- Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:17 pm --

Goatboy wrote:Nonetheless, I do have some strong opinions about healthcare. First off, the idea of being required to have healthcare is ridiculous. I can understand car insurance, because when you drive you are not only endangering yourself, but others as well. But with health/life insurance, it makes no sense to be mandatory. If you sit at home all day and rarely do anything dangerous, you are not likely to get injured. However, if you work in construction, or some other risky job, it makes sense to have it.


You're forced to have healthcare the same reason you're forced to have car insurance in many states.

Imagine someone has just suffered a very serious car accident. They are rushed to the ER, and he has to undergo very expensive surgery to live.

At the end of the ordeal, they discover he doesn't have health insurance. He also can't afford to pay the bill.

...What now? They seize his possessions? The hospital takes a major hit to their budget?

If they discover he doesn't have healthcare BEFORE operating, what are they going to do? Turn him away?
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by eth0mane on Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:37 pm
([msg=33847]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

On one hand some people need health care that can't afford it on another hand forcing them to have it as well as raising taxes to cover it is wrong. People should give because they choose to. But my opinion is I just don't care. I don't see many people getting arrested for not having health care due to the possible public outrage. (like in the military during a war you can get the death penalty for desertion, but will they even lock them up probably not.)
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by Goatboy on Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:45 pm
([msg=33848]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

sanddbox wrote:You're forced to have healthcare the same reason you're forced to have car insurance in many states.

Imagine someone has just suffered a very serious car accident. They are rushed to the ER, and he has to undergo very expensive surgery to live.

At the end of the ordeal, they discover he doesn't have health insurance. He also can't afford to pay the bill.

...What now? They seize his possessions? The hospital takes a major hit to their budget?

If they discover he doesn't have healthcare BEFORE operating, what are they going to do? Turn him away?

That's a very good point. It's not a perfect system, and no answer is, but it's just how I think things should be. In this case, I would say the guy would have to make payments. Part of his bill could be covered by his auto insurance as part of a limited health insurance stuck on to it. Again, not a perfect solution but one that I like personally.
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by faazshift on Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:52 pm
([msg=33849]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

@sanddbox, regarding your hypothetical situation, you might be interested in this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charity_care.
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by sanddbox on Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:59 am
([msg=33853]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

faazshift wrote:@sanddbox, regarding your hypothetical situation, you might be interested in this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charity_care.


So we should base our healthcare on charity, which many hospitals do not even provide?

-- Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:00 am --

Goatboy wrote:That's a very good point. It's not a perfect system, and no answer is, but it's just how I think things should be. In this case, I would say the guy would have to make payments. Part of his bill could be covered by his auto insurance as part of a limited health insurance stuck on to it. Again, not a perfect solution but one that I like personally.


What if he doesn't have auto insurance either?

He loses all his possessions and goes to jail for debt?
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by Goatboy on Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:12 am
([msg=33854]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

sanddbox wrote:What if he doesn't have auto insurance either?

He loses all his possessions and goes to jail for debt?

I think you're reading a little too far into my opinion.

I'm not an Economist. I hated that class enough to forget a lot of what I learned. Political Science was the same. All my ideas are just things that make sense to me. I never have and never will say that they are "right" or somehow what the world should be like. I haven't spent nearly enough time thinking about them for them to be complete in any way.

That said, I think auto insurance should be mandatory, and should also cover a bit of the health insurance. That's all I've really said before. As far as losing all of his possessions, I never once hinted at that. I said he should have to pay the bills off. IE, he should have a freeze put on his credit card for any non-essential purchases (things other than food, clothing, gas, etc.) until he pays off the debt. That's to keep him from buying a new $5,000 TV when he still owes $10k in hospital bills.

Again, please don't analyze my idea to the bone here. I'm not saying it's is flawless. It is just what I think makes sense.
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by everfall on Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:17 am
([msg=33862]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

Just a question, but have any of you guys thought that your government should be the one paying?
It would be an amazing step forward if the US brought public health service in.
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by faazshift on Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:32 am
([msg=33864]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

everfall wrote:Just a question, but have any of you guys thought that your government should be the one paying?
It would be an amazing step forward if the US brought public health service in.

Well I don't know if a governmentally funded health care system could work, but the current bill, as I see it, will epically fail and do much more harm than good. In regards to me thinking the government should be the one paying, no. Sure people don't like having to pay big bills, but it doesn't mean that someone else should have to pay your bills. If anything health care needs to cost less. Medical professionals get payed enormous amounts of money, and medical facilities have enormous funds, which is a result of all the money they charge people that doesn't have to be charged. The reform needs to happen in the health care facilities, not the health insurance.
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Re: United States Health Care Bill

Post by Defience on Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:19 am
([msg=33865]see Re: United States Health Care Bill[/msg])

People left England in the 17th century to come to America to get away from government control. Even though it was mainly for freedom of religion, the point was to have individual rights. Why would the U.S.A. want to give up a piece of freedom that has been fought for for hundreds of years? To me it's about government control, and it has been inching it's way into the private sectors for years. Barrack Hussein Obama has stated several times that his goal is for a 'Universal health care' system but then on several occasions, he has denied using the word 'Universal'. Government control? World control? NWO?
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