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Re: Communism

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:53 pm
by msbachman
anarcha wrote:Does it not logically follow that further 'humanisation' or 'moral evolution' or whatever you want to call it we can do away with this 'innate' competitivity and selfishness?

Hell, even if it isn't possible and it will never happen then do you not think that by at least trying to achieve it then we can make the world a better place?


Even if you could breed the drive to better oneself out of humanity what would you have accomplished? Likely nothing good whatsoever.

Couldn't have said it better than the mind rapist, but with the one stipulation for precisely why it fails. No amount of moralizing/indoctrination will change the fact that humans see the world from within themselves looking outwards. Everything that we think and do at a very low level has us, or "me", rather, at the center.

Giving to charities and the less fortunate is one thing, but the drive to center human behavior around helping others is, I think, impossible and unnatural. I'm not saying it's morally bankrupt (though many have argued more persuasively than I could that it is), but I can't see the end benefit to changing fundamentally how people behave like Communism commands.

In the end though, all we really need to go by are the proofs of the countries that are or were actively communist. The Soviet Union: oppression en masse of its people who lacked basic freedoms such as that of criticizing their government. China: ibid. The "Democratic Republic of North Korea": hell on earth. Cuba: a quasi-functioning remnant of a once-decent state.

What happened in every case? The people elected or who clawed their way to power exhibited the same traits that others have spoken of. Namely, the innate capacity of human greed and the drive for self-improvement.

You take those countries and as a whole there's not a single conceivable metric by which they might hold a candle to the predominantly capitalistic US. That's the basis for why people think that Communism is abhorrent; it's proved itself to be so time and time again!

Re: Communism

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:58 am
by Vulpine
cobrakhan wrote:Karl Marx would be turning over in has grave if he heard them calling that communism.


You know what's really ironic? Marx wanted to use Capitalism to generate enough money for Communism to get started.

Re: Communism

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:50 am
by VACUOUS
Vulpine wrote:
cobrakhan wrote:Karl Marx would be turning over in has grave if he heard them calling that communism.


You know what's really ironic? Marx wanted to use Capitalism to generate enough money for Communism to get started.


Of course he did, have you ever read the communist manifesto? It basically states

Feudalism --> Capitalism --> Imperialism --> Socialism --> Communism --> Anarchism

Re: Communism

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:16 pm
by maxgonemad
The idea of Communism is basically a perfect world. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world because of greed and other things people always do. That is why there has never been a REAL communist country, because the leader who is supposed to get the ball rolling never steps down. In a communist country there can't be a leader.

Re: Communism

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:10 pm
by Vulpine
How does greed contribute to the imperfection of the world? I would sooner attribute an accusation like that upon those who feel a false sense of entitlement.

Re: Communism

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:33 pm
by footyfrak
andemont wrote:Karl Marx was the guy that invented communism and he got kicked out of many countrie because of that, because they knew that from communism it goes directly to dictatorship.


Not quite true.

He was kicked from the Germany (motherland) to France, then from France to England. But not of fear of dictatorship. They kicked him out because of fear the people will join together and make revolution. There already was dictatorship In all those countries. They were just scared they will lose their dictatorship because of Karl Marx propaganda.

-- Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:53 pm --

ultratoga wrote:Communism is something that I have been fascinated by for a very long time. Having a fully functioning communist government without the humanity which holds it back would be pure bliss. All would be perfect. However, as they say, it's too good to be true. Socialism seems like a good idea to me, though.

I don't know why Communism is so antagonized by the west, though. Is it just propaganda?


I recommend you to do research on the idea of The Venus Project. There is nice documentary about Venus called Zeitgeist Addendum.

Communism was so antagonized by the west - by the all countries actually (including those we call communist countries) because capitalists were so fking afraid of loosing money,wealth and power because "their legal earned" property would be given to communes (people and country - not one selfish person).

Re: Communism

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:19 am
by ghost107
I didn't read the posts just the first one.

In my opinion Communist is a BAD IDEA, on the communist era lands and factories were confiscated from the people, where the state took all. There were laws in the communist era where would put people into the prison (Law 18, this law made everybody poor, the state FISC, equivalent to IRS, would check every income and possession of the people).

If you bad mouthed the communist party or its regim on the street you ended in prison(my uncle ended there for 1 month). No one in the family knew what happened to him for 1 month(prison wasn't something nice, prisoners died because of the guards tortures).

Everyone worked for the state, if you didn't had a job they gave you a job, or if they found you didn't have a job they gave you one. Everything was masked by the state(they controlled the media, and everything)

In the communist era they wanted to eliminate religion, priests being sent to prisons or, labor camps, sometimes execute them.

Here is a documentary on how they masked a bank robbery:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5111381801

Do you want to live in a world where there is no crime and no opposition where the terror on the both sides was imposed by the government on the people.

Re: Communism

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:57 pm
by not_essence2
ghost107- Communism NEVER advocates seizure. The main flaw, in my POV, is that it's hard to get it started perfectly, because you need people who share your idea completely, or else a form of government, especially a fragile one like Communism, will just become a dystopia instead of an utopia.
So, when communist revolutions succeeded, they needed to make the public share their idea, as sadly, the public didn't. So they were forced to revert to low methods such as extreme propaganda and harsh regulations. It's true, Communism doesn't work practically, but we can't go around saying that it was an idea made by evil people because it wasn't practical. I mean, otherwise, half of the fiction books in the world would be accused of state sedition.

Re: Communism

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:59 pm
by Pheo14
I guess this is a little bit late, anyway, late is better than none

Marx's principle was nothing more than a stupid shit...Why?

1. The class struggle never end. After the extermination of the old burgois, guess what, we have a newly-formed burgois, they are known as the state's worker. These worker was granted permission to access to the state's resources, and most of the time, they steal it.
2. The communist world doesn't need a government. So, without a government, how could the goods and services be distributed? Keep in mind the free market is evil (capitalism) in Karl Marx's eyes

The problem is not really about greedy, the problem is the theory of communism itself. Say, there are good people and bad people in a society, but in a communist society, the good only have one choice: Breaking bad

Re: Communism

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 3:20 pm
by ghostheadx2
Not communism. Maybe social democracy?