Is atheism/agnosticism our way out?

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Is atheism/agnosticism our way out?

Post by haykuro on Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:38 pm
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Hello everyone, not sure if this should have been posted under religion or politics. But felt it was more proper here, if moderators feel it should be moved, feel free to do so.

After hearing about the sudden interest the media has with the attacks from Hezbollah and the ongoing struggle in Israel, I couldn't hold back the urge to laugh.

It's becoming almost like kids in a playground, shouting at each other over who's dad is better (but in this case they have the same father.) It's ridiculous that a socially accepted imaginary friend such as "God" (whose requests and doings are all controlled by word of mouth, and adjusted to fit the current standing in a war) can help control life itself. Corruption, greed, murder, suicide, all are sins in any basic religion (aside from Scientology one can assume :lol: ) and yet we go on seeing these men and women shouting out to their so called "God" and waging jihad on a country when they themselves are causing their own poverty in support of these stupid ideals.

It's hilarious having to watch grown men and women accepting the word of a corrupt religious leader, simply because it is socially acceptable. It seems that the leaders are the high school students sporting some sort of new fashion, while the followers are the middle school kids wanting to be just like them. Hoping one day to be able to stand up and be watched by millions. If they so wish to be famous, why not revolutionize and stop doing what the crowd does? Why not surrender terror suspects, or refuse to take part in terrorism altogether. As is any leadership, it is only as powerful as the population lets it become.

So my question I pose to be discussed is, do you believe that religion is becoming such a political strain, that if everyone just conformed and understood atheism/agnosticism and were not afraid of it, would the world be at peace?
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Re: Is atheism/agnosticism our way out?

Post by Dr_Phil on Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:01 pm
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haykuro wrote:So my question I pose to be discussed is, do you believe that religion is becoming such a political strain, that if everyone just conformed and understood atheism/agnosticism and were not afraid of it, would the world be at peace?


Mankind still has too many idiotic people with idiotic reasons too go to war for. Here's some reasons:
1. Different skin-colour. (What?! Are those bastards not white?! Let's have a war then!)
2. Different cultures. (What? Don't they have X-mas? That's weird, let's teach them a lesson!)
3. Different language. (Why can't those bastards speak Icelandic like everyone else does? Here is war the only soloution!)
4. They have things we don't. (What, does they have oil down there? And we are almost out of it? Lets take the oil by force!)
5. Crazy leaders and dictators. (I'm bored.. Hey, those guys in the country next door has almost no forces.. Let's go to war with snother country with lots of people and troops!)

Actually, just because many atheists are smart and nice it doesn't make you smart and nice just because you stop to believe in any religion. ;)

(Sorry for this piece of rubbish!)
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Re: Is atheism/agnosticism our way out?

Post by DenyTheTruth on Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:50 pm
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You are confusing faith with organized religion.

Atheism and Agnosticism are not the belief that there are no true religions or that one is unsure if any of the religions are real. They are the believes that there is no true God or that they are unsure who's God to follow. What (I assume) you propose is a removal of faith and not a removal of religion. If you are suggesting the removal of organize religion all you will do is start another witch hunt. In the end nothing came of that aside from another popular religion shifting into the void the old one left behind.

If you truly believe that removing one's faith would work even in a society where race, culture, and language have been overcome then I suggest you read the Warhammer series: Horus Heresy. If you're having trouble finding the books (they didn't do a very good job of making it understood what order the books run in), start with Horus Rising.

This series will quickly show you what happens when you remove a society's faith in a higher being. The removal of God, as it were, will open too great a hole in the human brain's ability to comprehend where we came from and what we now are. It will instantly be filled whomever was powerful enough to make us all believe that God is false. We may not worship that person directly but we will certainly begin to worship what he or she stood for.
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Re: Is atheism/agnosticism our way out?

Post by blagmoth on Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:38 pm
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DenyTheTruth wrote:You are confusing faith with organized religion.<br><br>Atheism and Agnosticism are not the belief that there are no true religions or that one is unsure if any of the religions are real. They are the believes that there is no true God or that they are unsure who's God to follow. What (I assume) you propose is a removal of faith and not a removal of religion. If you are suggesting the removal of organize religion all you will do is start another witch hunt. In the end nothing came of that aside from another popular religion shifting into the void the old one left behind.<br><br>If you truly believe that removing one's faith would work even in a society where race, culture, and language have been overcome then I suggest you read the Warhammer series: Horus Heresy. If you're having trouble finding the books (they didn't do a very good job of making it understood what order the books run in), start with Horus Rising.<br><br>This series will quickly show you what happens when you remove a society's faith in a higher being. The removal of God, as it were, will open too great a hole in the human brain's ability to comprehend where we came from and what we now are. It will instantly be filled whomever was powerful enough to make us all believe that God is false. We may not worship that person directly but we will certainly begin to worship what he or she stood for.


It would seem like the hole left by people discarding the concept of god should be filled by the truth. It is true that we don't understand our origins or what exist outside of our sphere of existence but why should we accept an explanation that is not only unrealistic, it is also causes unnecessary problems.
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Re: Is atheism/agnosticism our way out?

Post by DenyTheTruth on Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:29 pm
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That's the problem with faith. You cannot prove it to be right or wrong. There is no certainty as to how we were created, only speculation.

If someone were to eventually prove that there is a God/is not a God, things would change drastically on our planet. Again, I urge a reading of the Horus Heresy. The Emperor had begun enlightenment of the universe and showed them that there was no God. He even disliked the word. So people stopped believing in deities and when a difficult time came they started worshiping him instead despite the fact that he said many times that he was not a God, just a very wise man that lived a very long time due to science.
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Re: Is atheism/agnosticism our way out?

Post by bearhunta on Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:59 pm
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haykuro wrote:
So my question I pose to be discussed is, do you believe that religion is becoming such a political strain, that if everyone just conformed and understood atheism/agnosticism and were not afraid of it, would the world be at peace?



What happened to freedom? Nobody seems to get it. I myself do not conform to organized religion, but the idea of making someone else conform to my beliefs is completely contradictory.
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Re: Is atheism/agnosticism our way out?

Post by Heath Winchester on Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:53 pm
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DenyTheTruth wrote:This series will quickly show you what happens when you remove a society's faith in a higher being. The removal of God, as it were, will open too great a hole in the human brain's ability to comprehend where we came from and what we now are. It will instantly be filled whomever was powerful enough to make us all believe that God is false. We may not worship that person directly but we will certainly begin to worship what he or she stood for.

That is very very interesting. I've never heard it put like that before. It's true and undoubtedly what would happen. That sort of ties in with the Biblical scripture of Revelations and the Anti-Christ and all that stuff.

The only way for Religion to go away and still have the human race in tact would be for all of us to become amazingly enllightened. We'd have to rethink everything. We'd have to be like Star Trek basically. Working to better ourselves and all that mess. Which would be wonderful but it won't happen.

I don't have a problem with religion or faith if you keep it out of how you run a country and so on and so forth. I know people who are Christians who are incredibly happy that way. If you took God away from them they'd be suicidal. They have such insane faith in a supernatural being that may or may not exist.

Oh by the way, I'm not a Christian. Nor am I anything. I am simply me. I'm living my life and doing what I think is right. What the hell else can I do? If some God wants to punish me for doing what I think is right than he's no God I want any part of.
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Re: Is atheism/agnosticism our way out?

Post by Laozi on Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:41 pm
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People have a right to agree with any religion they want. Just because you do not believe the religion is correct, that does not give you the right to tell everyone to conform to atheism and/or agnostic beliefs just because you believe that it would be a better way for everyone to live. First of all they do not, not convert just because they are scared, its just their beliefs disagree with atheistic or agnostic beliefs. Also, agnostic and atheistic beliefs would cause just as many problems and people have been their own religions for many more years then you can possibly imagine, even if you think you fully comprehend the space of time of thousands of years. Also, on the point that wars would end, that is completely incorrect as many wars would occur due to culture differences and long-term hatred. For example, the Turks would still believe that Armenia is their land while Armenia believes turkey has some of their land, or even Israel/Palestine or Pakistan/India, etc.. One other thing, explain to me how you would manage to get billions of people to convert to a different religion against their will, and how they would actually be convinced that there is no God when for centuries, they have believed in both God and claimed to have experienced multiple miracles that were God-sent.
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Re: Is atheism/agnosticism our way out?

Post by Spectre557 on Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:50 pm
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Laozi wrote:People have a right to agree with any religion they want. Just because you do not believe the religion is correct, that does not give you the right to tell everyone to conform to atheism and/or agnostic beliefs just because you believe that it would be a better way for everyone to live.

If someone's too obsessed and brainwashed by religion to think any other way, then they are unable or unwilling to help themselves. Just like someone mentally ill, who might think they are sane; a third party is required to break the illusion and cure the individual.

Besides, are you saying I have no right to try and change anyone's thinking? Really? Because that's exactly what religion does. In fact, it strikes me as fundamentally wrong not to try and help someone thoroughly religious. If they are filled with confusion and fear and hate because of religion, whether they choose to recognise it or not, and tell their children "Kill the infidel, torture the Jew, destroy the West", then you can't seriously think they have some kind of right to do that.

Laozi wrote:First of all they do not, not convert just because they are scared, its just their beliefs disagree with atheistic or agnostic beliefs.

And where do those beliefs come from? Religion. Besides, they might think that they're conforming to religion because it's their choice, they genuinely want to be a better person, they see real truth in scripture, yadda yadda yadda, but the thing that motivates nearly any religious person is fear. Fear of being wrong about the world, fear of new ideas, fear of being alone in the universe, fear of spending an eternity in perpetual torment and agony, often just because they've thought about doing something "sinful".

Laozi wrote:Also, agnostic and atheistic beliefs would cause just as many problems and people have been their own religions for many more years then you can possibly imagine, even if you think you fully comprehend the space of time of thousands of years.

Are you implying that you comprehend thousands of years while no one else does? It's a long time, fine. Anyway, can you explain some of those "problems"? Anything worse than stirring up racism, homophobia, sexism and hatred? Maybe Atheists would start wars with fairytales and myth for justification in killing people? Maybe they'd claim special treatment because they have ridiculous delusions. There are thousands of ways in which religion has well and truly f*cked up nearly the entire world. You can't possibly be serious that removing religion would create more than it fixed?

Laozi wrote:Also, on the point that wars would end, that is completely incorrect as many wars would occur due to culture differences and long-term hatred.

That's true, but at least they wouldn't try and justify their acts with scripture and lies.

Laozi wrote:One other thing, explain to me how you would manage to get billions of people to convert to a different religion against their will, and how they would actually be convinced that there is no God when for centuries, they have believed in both God

True, lots of people are just too utterly and completely brainwashed as blind slaves to religion to change at all; they simply wouldn't function. But generally, people are more enlightened and intelligent now than they've ever been, and most of the time, with intelligence comes a rejection of fantasy as truth.

Laozi wrote:claimed to have experienced multiple miracles that were God-sent.

Claimed. I'd bet everything I've ever had or ever will that not a single person in the history of humanity has truly witnessed a "miracle from God". That is utter bullsh*t, and just one of the lies that religion uses to twist people minds. It actually sickens me that people buy that stuff.

Although I probably will never live to see it, I can only hope that some day religion will finally die, and people will wake up and stop being so f*cking stupid.
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Re: Is atheism/agnosticism our way out?

Post by The7thGuest on Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:16 am
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Well, I haven't really heard any evidence of religion screwing up the world?

I've heard a lot of how people abuse religion, but that should be a problem with people, not religion.
If any scripture ever stated that we should go to war and shout "God wills it" I missed it?

I agree that people have abused it, changed it and generally made a pretty good mess of it, but does that really mean the problem lies with religion? All women are equipped to be prostitutes, should we lock up all women?
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